atw: Re: National Broadband Network issue
- From: Rod Stuart <rod.stuart@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 16:27:17 +1000
a) I didn't start the thread. Rhonda did. One of the reasons this democracy
of ours will surely fail is because people refuse to debate. We have reached
the stage at which even the politicians running for office refuse to
debate.
b) In a true bastion of free enterprise, national defence would be funded by
voluntary contributions. Do you suppose that the Salvos are as wasteful as
the military?
c) Of course. They are called toll roads. Do you think the government should
provide airline tickets?
d) Education and health are commodities in the same way that washing
machines and fridges are. Would you like the government to provide washing
machines and fridges as well? The Soviets tried that and it didn't work.
e) If no profit oriented entrepreneur such as yourself would put money in
it, why would you want somebody to steal you money to put into it?
f) I have absolutely no idea whether the first university was in the West of
the East, but more than likely it was created with voluntary contributions
of one sort or another.
g) What is the connection between education and lands bricks and mortar?
By its very definition, the transfer of assets from one individual to
another through force or threat of force is theft. That is PRECISELY what a
tax is. If you are so very happy paying taxes, it follows that you would be
equally happy being mugged so long as the mugger had a "need".
h) Many of the architectural and artistic wonders of the world have in fact
been "funded" by philanthropists and not thieves.
j) There are in fact very few LEGITIMATE roles for government. The founding
father of federation recognised this.
k) The correct answer to your last demand might well be Ayn Rand.
k) Your parting shot, Geoffrey, is below the belt, but in fact if I do need
an ambulance, it will be funded by my private health insurance.
On 18 August 2010 15:49, Geoffrey Marnell <geoffrey@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Hi Rod,
>
> This is rather controversial for a technical writing list, but since you
> raise it let me ask you this. Do you think there would ever be an
> entrepreneur willing to fund the defence forces? Build roads and bridges?
> Provide schools and hospitals accessible by all citizens regardless of
> wealth? Might it not be that the NBN policy, for all its warts, has been
> proposed precisely because no profit-motivated entrepreneur would put money
> into it? Did the first university begin as a profit-driven initiative? Or
> did the value of education out-strip the monetary value of the the land,
> bricks and mortar? Might not the same argument apply to the NBN?
>
> You can call it socialism if you like, but I'm very happy paying taxes for
> initiatives that provide lasting value and aspire to something other than
> minimising costs. (On the cost-only model we would have none of the
> architectural and artistic wonders of the world. And how emotionally
> deadening would that be.) The fact that governments can and do waste money
> is no reason not to give money to governments. We need them as much as a
> meeting needs a chairperson. And therein lies the contradiction in Margaret
> Thatcher. She declares that the homo sapiens is not a social beast but a
> purely an individualist assemblage of value-less matter striving for
> self-pleasure and then runs for parliament, pouring money into defence and
> many other natural monopolies that help the many regardless of their ability
> to pay. Show me one neo-liberal who really believes that every function, and
> I mean every function, of society can and should be out-sourced to private
> enterprise.
>
> I sincerely hope you don't need an ambulance this evening.
>
>
> Geoffrey Marnell
> Principal Consultant
> Abelard Consulting Pty Ltd
> T: +61 3 9596 3456
> F: +61 3 9596 3625
> W: www.abelard.com.au
> Skype: geoffrey.marnell
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:
> austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] *On Behalf Of *Rod Stuart
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 18, 2010 3:22 PM
> *To:* austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> *Subject:* atw: Re: National Broadband Network issue
>
> If Australia were a bastion of free enterprise capitalism rather than a
> sort of socialist quagmire, some entrepreneur no doubt would have conceived
> of a fibre-optic network, completed a comprehensive market survey, created a
> business plan, written a prospectus, and floated it as an IPO on the stock
> exchange.
>
> How many citizens just itching to download movies faster do you suppose
> would have been willing to invest the required $10,000 per household in
> shares?
>
> If this ridiculous proposal put forward as a political gimmick is an
> "investment", then it should follow that individuals have the freedom to
> choose to invest or not to invest. At some future juncture then individuals
> would also have the choice as when to sell.
>
> As Margaret Thatcher is attributed with saying, "Eventually, Socialists
> run out of other peoples' money to spend." That day of reckoning is not far
> away.
>
> Socialism is nothing if it is not a jackboot on the face of humanity.
>
> On 18 August 2010 13:17, WongWord@xxxxxxxxx <wongword@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> In a few years time a govt can privatise the NBN for who knows what
>> ...$430 million?
>>
>> I agree not everything needs to be privatised at all costs. But what I am
>> saying is that the current NBN doesn't mean it needs to be a public
>> enterprise for ever and ever if that is your economic/politcal bent.
>>
>> But let's give the whole of Australia a fair go. I feel the need and I'm
>> only on the outskirts of Sydney.
>>
>> I am originally from Tasmania and let me tell you that if it wasn't for
>> ABC radio my childhood would have been a far more isolated one. I would
>> never have been exposed to the *information and entertainment* what was
>> available by a truly national broadcaster.
>>
>> Irene Wong
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* Peter Johnson <peterjohnson.oz@xxxxxxxxx>
>> *To:* austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 18, 2010 11:09 AM
>> *Subject:* atw: Re: National Broadband Network issue
>>
>> Thanks for that Rhonda. I think your email sums it up pretty well. It's
>> about time we as a society departed from the market "god" concept &
>> "privatisation at all costs" attitude. There are some things that need a
>> national unified approach & I think in this instance it is appropriate for
>> government to at least initiate it. The NBN is an investment, just like
>> education, roads, rail, public health etc.
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 08:24, Rhonda Bracey <
>> rhonda.bracey@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all
>>>
>>> I've never been one discuss politics (or even been interested too much
>>> in the 'issues' surrounding an election). And I have no intention of
>>> starting a discussion about politics here.
>>>
>>> However, for many of you who work from home (whether in the city or
>>> not), or who would like to work from home, the National Broadband
>>> Network issue is one that affects you directly.
>>>
>>> I blogged about my stance on this critical issue to my ability to work
>>> here:
>>> http://cybertext.wordpress.com/2010/08/13/letter-to-local-member-of-parl
>>> iament-re-the-nbn/<http://cybertext.wordpress.com/2010/08/13/letter-to-local-member-of-parl%0Aiament-re-the-nbn/>(or
>>> http://bit.ly/aewMZq)
>>>
>>> The NBN is something I feel very passionate about, and even more so
>>> since having an email discussion yesterday with Helen, a member of
>>> another list I'm on. Helen has moved from Pemberton, WA to a property
>>> about an hour south of Perth. She cannot even get phone, let alone
>>> internet on her new property. As her internet access is severely
>>> limited, I'll quote from an email she wrote to me today when she was
>>> back in Pemberton:
>>>
>>> "We are fed up with them, whoever 'they' are. We have had to have
>>> satellite internet here because we are 100m from a hub/rim, in spite of
>>> campaigning to get internet here, which everyone else does have now,
>>> except us. The phone line (180m) was laid and connected on Friday only
>>> for them to 'discover' there is a fault on the town side of the line.
>>> The fault is, just like your cake, there was one 'pair gain' whatever
>>> left for us to have and it has a fault. You can't tell me they didn't
>>> know that, and that is why it was left. So no phone and no internet."
>>>
>>> And this is an hour out of a major capital city, not woop-woop.
>>>
>>> Some 50+ years ago an Australian government had the vision to lay copper
>>> lines throughout the country to provide us with an (almost) universal
>>> telephone service. Now a government wants to do a similarly large
>>> infrastructure project, this time with materials that should last a
>>> further 50+ years, but the opposition wants to keep us in the dark ages
>>> of a failing copper wire network (and boy, have I had experience of it
>>> failing!), or build thousands more mobile phone towers to provide us
>>> with a slow satellite service.
>>>
>>> I'll shut up now.
>>>
>>> Rhonda
>>>
>>> Rhonda Bracey
>>> rhonda.bracey@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> http://www.cybertext.com.au
>>> CyberText Newsletter/blog: http://cybertext.wordpress.com
>>> Author-it Certified Consultant
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>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Rod Stuart
> 6 Brickhill Drive
> Dilston, TAS 7252, Australia
> <rod.stuart@xxxxxxxxx>
> M((040) 184 6575 V(03) 6312 5399
>
--
Rod Stuart
6 Brickhill Drive
Dilston, TAS 7252, Australia
<rod.stuart@xxxxxxxxx>
M((040) 184 6575 V(03) 6312 5399
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