Geoffrey, and all others listening in. it's late Friday afternoon and time for a beer. Thanks for all the verbal jostling - you've given me lots to think about. Mark From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Geoffrey Marnell Sent: Friday, 20 August 2010 4:12 PM To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: atw: Re: National Broadband Network and empathy Mark, There is nothing in my posting to suggest that I believe that "the public sector should be more efficient". I said that I had seen inefficiencies in both sectors and that the most egregious examples of inefficiency were seen in the private sector: in start-ups and lazy giants. That was meant to be an antidote to those who do think that governments have no place in commercial life because they are inefficient (as Rod Stewart seems to think). There is no necessary logical link between the concept of government and the concept of inefficiency. My second point-that governments can borrow more cheaply and are not fettered by shareholder expectations-is not related at all to efficiency. But there is no logical reason why a government-funded and government-managed project must necessarily be less efficient than a privately funded and managed project. It comes down to sensible planning and prudent management. Survival of the fittest, eh? So how would you react if, in the interests of a lean economy and international competitiveness, the government decreed that the working week shall be extended to 60 hours, salaries shall be reduced by 20%, annual leave reduced to just one week and every worker must double their productivity or through-put? We might become fit enough to challenge the Chinese or whoever, but at what cost? There is infinitely more to a rich and fulfilling life than pursuing lean economies and chasing a fistful of dollars. Cheers Geoffrey Marnell Principal Consultant Abelard Consulting Pty Ltd T: +61 3 9596 3456 F: +61 3 9596 3625 W: <http://www.abelard.com.au/> www.abelard.com.au Skype: geoffrey.marnell _____ From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Mark Nebauer Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 2:48 PM To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: atw: Re: National Broadband Network and empathy Hi Geoffrey, My understanding is that the GFC was a result of criminal manipulation of so-called government watchdogs in the US. So yes, of course I think that there needs to be government oversight of criminal activity in the private sector. Still, I don't think this should impede "survival of the fittest", only dull the cutting edges of tooth and claw. But I still fail to see why the public sector should be more efficient when it lacks the natural attrition of the open marketplace. Mark From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Geoffrey Marnell Sent: Friday, 20 August 2010 2:26 PM To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: atw: Re: National Broadband Network and empathy Hi Mark, Re you comment "surely you have also seen a lot of sloth in the hidden recesses of government departments?". I said that I had, in the first paragraph of my posting. Do you really want private-sector evolution regardless of civil and ethical outcomes? It sounds like you want to leave everything to markets. Even economists have largely abandoned that idea. The GFC was largely the result of unfettered evolution of capital markets. Without government intervention, where might we all be now? Cheers Geoffrey Marnell Principal Consultant Abelard Consulting Pty Ltd T: +61 3 9596 3456 F: +61 3 9596 3625 W: <http://www.abelard.com.au/> www.abelard.com.au Skype: geoffrey.marnell _____ From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Mark Nebauer Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 12:44 PM To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: atw: Re: National Broadband Network and empathy Hi Geoffrey, Interesting thoughts on private/public sectors Geoffrey but I'm still inclined to think that the private sector is at least subject to the laws of evolution - it's all about survival of the fittest. This is what should keep the private sector lean and mean. If private enterprises are getting sluggish then something is wrong - they are not operating in the real world, probably because of monopoly-type environments and I think electricity, transport and water suppliers could fit into this category. There is no such dynamic in the public sector which makes me surprised to hear your observations - surely you have also seen a lot of sloth in the hidden recesses of government departments? Mark From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Geoffrey Marnell Sent: Friday, 20 August 2010 10:26 AM To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: atw: Re: National Broadband Network and empathy Hello Rod, It's good to see the passion return to this list, but can I ask a favour. For the edification of all those still interested in this thread, can you provide some solid, empirical evidence that the private sector is always more efficient than the public sector. Here is my anecdotal evidence to the contrary. I have, over many years, been employed by both sectors and have contracted to both sectors. While inefficiency (encompassing waste, mismanagement and general ineptitude) has been fairly evenly spread across both sectors, the instances of greatest inefficiency I has witnessed were in the private sector. Two segments in particular stand out: start-ups (who seem to think that money grows on trees) and the large, long-standing, highly profitable behemoths (lulled by blinding complacency into thinking that they must be doing the best they can). Nothing came close in the public sector. Secondly, do you think that the private sector can always provide services more cheaply than the public sector? I mentioned yesterday that governments can fund their activities more cheaply than private companies, and they are not driven by shareholder appetite for profits and ever-increasing profit growth. But let's look at some examples. The anti-government government of Jeff Kennett privatised electricity in Victoria, assuring voters that this would lower electricity prices. Of course, the exact opposite occurred. Likewise water distribution. And take a look at Melbourne's privatised public transport system. Grossly inefficient, more and more expensive and incapable of retaining private-sector interest without the government tipping in a few hundred million dollars every year. So here's a case where necessary infrastructure is of no interest to the private sector unless it gets a government grant. (Or perhaps you consider a railway system not necessary infrastructure at all.) To my mind, reliance on the private sector is a recipe for the Hobbesian jungle. Cheers Geoffrey Marnell Principal Consultant Abelard Consulting Pty Ltd T: +61 3 9596 3456 F: +61 3 9596 3625 W: <http://www.abelard.com.au/> www.abelard.com.au Skype: geoffrey.marnell _____ From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Rod Stuart Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 8:39 AM To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: atw: Re: National Broadband Network and empathy And the best way......no, the ONLY way to make life easier for the end user (that's all of us) is to get government our of everyone's face. We're over-governed, over-taxed, over-regulated, and on top of that INEFFICIENTLY governed taxed and regulated. On 19 August 2010 22:20, Anne Casey <writan@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: At 10:03 PM 18/08/2010, you wrote: So what you are saying Anne is that the whole nation should have to cough up just so that you can get broadband? Living away from infrastructure has its price. Actually, Bruce, you are wrong. I (deliberately) live close enough to the local exchange to get ADSL2, according to Telstra - except the local copper is so poor that I can only get unreliable ADSL. Telstra has no interest in fixing the problem. It's not about what I am prepared to pay, but whether a private company could be bothered. I'll be generous though Anne, I'm happy to say "those using it when there is copper nearby should pay for it" if that helps, but it still sounds like you want the nation to pay for a safe, well-built, fully paved road to every farm and outlying doorstep. Oh hang on, I still haven't read that you were willing to pay for my road toll costs. You didn't ask; you just assumed I'm only interested in my own welfare. I'm not in favour of toll roads. On the other hand, I could say that the fact that you're required to use a toll road is because you chose to live away from infrastructure (heavy rail) - and you have to pay the price. I on the other hand choose to live walking distance from a train station; and yet I would support a rail extension to improve your access to public transport. I've come to realise over the last couple of days that there is something I look for in a technical writer, apart from the usual skills list - the ability to empathise with end users; to some extent to want to make their lives easier. Any thoughts? Anne -- Rod Stuart 6 Brickhill Drive Dilston, TAS 7252, Australia <rod.stuart@xxxxxxxxx> M((040) 184 6575 V(03) 6312 5399