[adaptech] FW: audyssey: games being released
- From: "Shane C. A. Lush" <sca.lush@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <adaptech@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 08:52:57 -0500
good god!
When will they stop!
Shane
-----Original Message-----
From: Shaun Everiss [mailto:shaun.e@xxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: March 8, 2003 2:21 AM
To: blindgamers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: audyssey: games being released
Hi james
Like it or not, trying to not kick any developer here, but honestly, if a
game had no random advents, I'd consider deleting it, or well, I just
wouldn't buy it, the point is with out challenge, eg random events, what is
there, the challenge is the game!
Nothing else matters.
I regestered lw trek2k and sod cause of random events and challenge,
nothing else.
At 01:29 p.m. 7/03/2003 +0000, you wrote:
>Hi there,
>
>I see your point but people have different reasons. Why do games have to
be
>challenging? I mean, I find Lonewolf great fun you know, but it's in my
>view challenging. Trupanum isn't, but it's still fun. It's like snake on
>mobile phones for the sighted, they play it for what i'd term a laugh, not
>to be challenged, just to waist a little time.
>
>Lol i don't get much time but i'm not always after high-flying challenge.
>If I want that I load up a Jim North game or Dave greendood game. Each
>developer has given us different types of program.
>
>Best
>
>-James-
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Frank Ibarra" <ibarra02@xxxxxxxxx>
>To: <blindgamers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 10:44 PM
>Subject: Re: audyssey: games being released
>
>
> > Chris.
> > Thanks for your post.
> > No, I am not laughing at you, well, actually now I am
> > lol
> >
> > jk
> > You are starting to understand my point.
> > The main thing here is that because I say that I have higher skills in
>some games,
> > people seem to take it as if I was saying I have better skills therefore
I
>am superior
> > to you in all aspects of life, and you are inferior to me.
> > Which is an absolute crock.
> > So let me put the final points in clear.
> >
> > This is my take on a challenging game.
> > Tell me Chris, what is the point of paying $25 or more if you are going
to
>be able to
> > beat the game in a day or so?
> > Sure, you will become the master player in no time and your eago will
>probably be
> > inflated.
> > But once this passes, you will be bored unless you got other means of
> > entertainment.
> >
> > Let's asume for a moment that my skill with troop was meager and it took
>me three
> > days to beat the first level.
> >
> > To be quite honest, I would probably say that this is a good game and it
>is providing
> > me with enough challenge to keep me on my toes while at the same time
>giving me
> > insentive to beat it thus inproving my skills.
> >
> > So you see, it is all relative.
> > With most things, practise will make perfect and it goes for gameplay
>itself.
> > It took me two weaks to finish shades of doom even when I was at the
hard
>level,
> > just because there is so much to do.
> > The same thing with monkey business, it took me a weak, and that was
>spending
> > about two hours each day in my spare time.
> >
> > So, if bsc caters to your needs as a player, good for him.
> > But I know, and we all know that you get better at what you do with
>repetition and
> > one day you will be able to beat troop in five minutes as well.
> > And as we game players start to get into the higher aspects of
technology
>some of
> > the smaller developers are going to have to rethink their take on it if
>they want to
> > serve the growing number of advanced players.
> >
> > As an example, I give you hunter.
> > Ok, let's asume for a second that Justin had definitely made this game
for
>first time
> > players.
> > It would have to be beginning computer users as the game is not for
young
>children
> > as he clearly states in the page.
> > It would also have to be for users who have not heard the better aspect
of
>sound
> > and who had not played the other games available by companies such as
gma
>or
> > esp.
> > Or it would have to be for people with slow motor skills who could not
>press a key
> > fast enough or concentrate enough to put up with say level five of alien
>outback.
> >
> > If this is the case, then as soon as he states it in his web site, gets
>involved in this
> > forum or atleast let's us know he is out there listening to his
potential
>consumers,
> > then and only then I might consider purchasing a game for friends with
>such skills.
> > So far, however, I feel that he has not given us his best.
> > For starters, the sounds are so conpressed and such quality is lost that
>to me it is
> > the equivalent of listening to a concerto in mono sound.
> > And indeed, the sounds are mono, except for those that move around for
you
>to
> > hunt.
> > Other wise, it is prety much center channel.
> >
> > With this in mind, even though the skill requirements are not to my
needs,
>the
> > ausome sound alone had it been, would have been enough for me to spent
the
> > whole afternoon playing the stuff.
> > He might have been able to sell something just with the ear candy alone.
> >
> > Remember sneller?
> > Or drive as it is also called, I spent hours playing the game just for
the
>sound alone.
> > The skills required were indeed for kids ten to fourteen, but the sounds
>were so
> > good, as were the voice overs that I kept playing it just to race my
>score.
> >
> > As for the inferiority situation, nobody has control over your feelings
>but your self.
> > The chinese used to have a saying about cungfu.
> > Two people would fight, and the looser would say to the other
> > "your cungfu is better than mine. Won't you let me learn from you?"
> > I am playing games and stating my opinion, your feelings about it or
about
>your
> > skills are yours alone. I don't personally know you, you do not live
next
>door, and
> > even if you did, if I gave you crap it would probably be in a friendly
way
>if we
> > befriended each other.
> >
> >
> > As for the pierpreasure with the different organizations, well, what
does
>that have to
> > do with games.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Eh?
> >
> > Frank.
> >
> >
> > Text of your message written on 6 Mar 2003,
> > reads thus: Re: audyssey: games being released
> >
> > I think what James and Frank are talking about is something that all
>gamers
> > face. One person says, oh that's easy. I beat that without even batting
an
> > eye. Troopanum! yawn!
> > now I picked on Troopanum even though I like it but I had to pick
>something
> > so there you have it. My point is that it all comes down to skills. I
>find
> > troopanum at the normal and insain levels to be challenging. yes, I know
> > Frank is laughing at me now, lol stop that! grin
> > but like I said, we all have different skills and what's challenging to
> > one person is child's play to another. So i think we need to keep that
in
> > mind. I can understand what Frank was saying about making the games
> > challenging, but come on will ya? If they make the game too hard, it's
>only
> > going to frustrate those who don't have the necessary skills to play the
> > game, and then they're going to feellike they waisted $25 bucks on a
game,
> > not to mention feeling inferior to those with better skills, which
>further
> > devides us. we're already divided enough on our choice of screen reader
>and
> > organization to belong to, and doing that just doesn't seem quite right
to
> > me. Not everyone is a wizz, so please, game developers, if you've got a
> > simple game idea, run with it! You're always going to find someone who
> > likes it.
> > The more games, the better for all of us!
> >
> >
> > At 07:53 AM 3/6/03 -0700, you wrote:
> > >That's what I call a good post. Taking someone's Email piece by piece,
> > >responding constructively while providing something to back up what you
>say.
> > >Thanks for sending it.
> > >
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "James Jolley" <jjolley@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > >To: <blindgamers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > >Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 7:36 AM
> > >Subject: Re: audyssey: games being released
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hi Frank, i'm sorry but you need to get your facts straight!
> > > >
> > > > I'll take you through the message and follow your points with
>asterisks
> > > > again
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Frank Ibarra" <ibarra02@xxxxxxxxx>
> > > > To: <blindgamers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 4:38 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: audyssey: games being released
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Ok, I will paste your quoted message and answer to it as I go.
> > > > > Your message has the asteriscs.
> > > > >
> > > > > *I agree with you on this one, but then I do think personally that
>Jim
> > > > > is
> > > > > doing far too much attacking of Justin.
> > > > >
> > > > > If so, it hasn't worked.
> > > > > I haven't heard a response from Justin.
> > > > > At anyrate, as a member of the list, this is Jame's privilege,
just
>as
> > >it
> > > > is your to say what you feel needs to be said.
> > > > > And Mr. Justin is quite capable of coming to his own defense if he
>truly
> > > > gave a hoop about what the community he serves
> > > > > wants.
> > > > > Still waiting...
> > > > >
> > > > *Justin realises that his software is for simpler players and he
>naturally
> > > > knows his market.
> > > >
> > > > > Your next point.
> > > >
> > > > > For those users who don't have nor care to aquire the necessary
>skills
> > >to
> > > > play higher games, you are probably in the
> > > > > right.
> > > > > None taxing.
> > > > > As for the job, what job?
> > > > > What job do they do?
> > > > > Keep people entertained doing simple tasks?
> > > > > Simple is good for a few hours even as far as I am concerned if
>atleast
> > > > for learning, but if you want to stay that way, you
> > > > > are within your rights.
> > > >
> > > > *Frank, let me get this straight, I own most of the games in our
>industry.
> > > > Dave's lonewolf, shades, trek 2k, Esp's pinball, Ailien Outback and
>MB,
> > > > BSC's Trupanum. Now, to say that i'd only go for simple tasks is a
>little
> > > > strange isn't it. I mean, the only point I was making was that
>Trupanum
> > >is
> > > > nice to play when you can't be bothered actually thinking! lol!
You
>know
> > > > what it's like well perhaps you don't, you don't always want a
>challenge.
> > >I
> > > > still play those word games too from Rob Bets too just because there
>time
> > > > fillers.
> > > >
> > > > > As I mentioned before, I am a buyer of products, and as such I
>expect
> > >the
> > > > best.
> > > > > Having something that might just do the job is not enough for me.
> > > > > The days of dos and other simple tasks are over, the tools for
>better
> > > > coding are here, and so are the facilities for
> > > > > accomplishing such deeds.
> > > > > Poor sound quality, easy games are not for me.
> > > > > Which is why I don't buy his work, it doesn't do it for me.
> > > > > If it does it for you, then more power to you.
> > > > > A master pianist became a master through hours in the practise
room
> > > > >
> > > > *What's the point about the master pianist meant to mean? Tell me
>that?
> > > > I'm not saying i'm a master pianist by any means, despite that i've
>won
> > > > countless competitions and so forth, not to mention the many hours
of
> > > > transcription work i have done using MIDI technology but of course
you
>say
> > > > that MIDI sounds cheap! We'll see!!
> > > >
> > > > > Next point:
> > > >
> > > > > So if you truly believe what you just said, why my saying that it
is
> > > > beneath me bothers you?
> > > > >
> > > > > If you were centered enough in your view, you would take it for
what
>it
> > >is
> > > > meant.
> > > > > Yes, my skills are higher than his games require and that is that.
> > > > > If I happen to be better than others, then who cares, I am not
> > >competing.
> > > > >
> > > > > Oh, and guess what, I suck at rocket science.
> > > > > So I probably won't get into stuff that requires this knowledge.
> > > > > And I have no right asking those who do good at it to limit their
> > >learning
> > > > curbe just so I feel confortable hanging around
> > > > > them.
> > > > > Your skills are yours to do with what you will, and it is a hard
>fact in
> > > > the real world, but yes, there are those smarter than
> > > > > me and you out there.
> > > > > I mean, who invented the midi keyboard, a person who thought the
>piano
> > >was
> > > > good enough and did the job or somebody
> > > > > who wanted better and faster conposition turn-out?
> > > > >
> > > > *Firstly, get your facts straight about the development of MIDI!
Your
> > >wrong
> > > > there. MIDI wasn't initially developed for composers, the
sequencer,
>or
> > > > what we know of as a sequencer didn't really come into it's own
until
> > >about
> > > > 1985, but again your an expert at everything, including my business!
>lol!
> > > > Also, MIDI was developed as a method of combining sounds from
various
> > > > instruments, it was a performance aid.
> > > >
> > > > > Next point:
> > > >
> > > > > Just because your system is not compatible enough with one game,
and
>the
> > > > other did work you are going to take it out on
> > > > > the game?
> > > > > Or is it computer skills again?
> > > > > Who's fault is it?
> > > > > The developer for not making his work intuitive enough to do this
>for
> > >you,
> > > > or the five minutes that would have taken to
> > > > > learn how to do this, or perhaps have somebody do it for you?
> > > > > Or even get some other sound card that would support this?
> > > > > After all, they are quite cheap now, cheap enough that even a
>college
> > > > student would be able to skip a few lunch breaks
> > > > > and buy one.
> > > > >
> > > > *Funny that is, considering the Audygy card certainly wasn't cheap,
>240
> > > > pounds when I purchased mine, I got the platinum EX version. You'd
>expect
> > > > it to work on a card such as that because creative are so standard
in
>the
> > > > business aren't they. Also, don't you ever try to make out that I
>have
> > >poor
> > > > computer skills. I've been around computers for years, started out
> > >writing
> > > > dos applications, did extensive programming for the Eureka A-4
laptop
> > > > computer in the late 80s, wrote several add on packages for that.
At
> > > > present, i'm working on scripting a package for the Conservatory of
>music
> > >in
> > > > london for JAWS called SuperConductor, lol yet another cheap and
>cheerful
> > > > MIDI playback tool!
> > > >
> > > > > As for the speed of the game, I have played troop at all levels at
a
> > > > friend's and the speed doesn't compare with aito.
> > > > > But then how would you know having not played the full game as to
>the
> > > > differences.
> > > > >
> > > > *Again, more unvarified facts! lol! Getting good at it aren't we?
I
> > >mean,
> > > > I did buy Alien outback when it came out. Ask Jim.
> > > >
> > > > > Next point:
> > > >
> > > > > Hmmm, interesting.
> > > > > I still don't get your point.
> > > > > If you are going to defend bsc, give me some good hard facts.
> > > > > The fact that the games are easier (I already played the easy
games
>and
> > >I
> > > > don't need easier), more suited to people with beginning skills,
> > > > > (why should I limit my self and regress so that a developer can
have
>his
> > > > eago masturbated),
> > > > > And when there are a plithora of starting developers who will
ensure
> > >that
> > > > beginning players will always be satisfied?
> > > > >
> > > > > Play what ever you want to play, my opinion doesn't stop you from
>buying
> > > > the game you want and playing till you are blue in the face.
> > > > >
> > > > *Fair point, all i'm saying is that you should take the time and
>realise
> > > > that BSC are aiming at a different market.
> > > >
> > > > > As for other users, they can speak for themselves.
> > > > >
> > > > > As for the soap box,
> > > > > May I suggest you read your manual on setting up filters for your
>email
> > > > messages.
> > > > > The address you wish to block is
> > > > > ibarra02@xxxxxxxxx
> > > > > You will not be bothered after this with my posts should you
choose
>to
> > > > delete them or send them straight to your trash folder.
> > > > >
> > > > *Frank, as if i'm going to block you for making your points? Anyone
>who
> > > > knows me will realise that i'm not in the business of being stupid
>over
> > >this
> > > > kind of thing. It's constructive discussion.
> > > >
> > > > > Next point:
> > > >
> > > > > >From her posts I have surmized she is not getting what she wants.
> > > > > She feels that all games are the same and that all developers and
> > >programs
> > > > made by them are or should be equal.
> > > > >
> > > > > I have come to expect anybody who wants my money to sell me
quality
> > >stuff.
> > > > > Thus far, I will keep buying from the companies who provide me
with
>such
> > > > entertainment and discart the others as they do not meat my needs.
> > > > >
> > > > > And if she has the right to take the pis out of a developer like
>James,
> > > > why can't I when I am a consumer as she is?
> > > > > Is he going to stop developing games for you because of what Frank
>says?
> > > > > One would hope that he has the necessary stamina to take
>constructive
> > >and
> > > > at times harsh critisism from those who want better or are
>unsatisfied, if
> > > > not, then he has no business making a
> > > > > career in this field or any that require serving the public.
> > > > > So, don't worry, I doubt that he will stop producing games that
you
> > >enjoy.
> > > > >
> > > > *I'm not concerned about the fact that you have a point to make, but
>your
> > > > verry heavy handed about how you make it!
> > > >
> > > > > Next point:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Your privilege again.
> > > > > But if James did not do it, rest asured that some other concerned
>player
> > > > would.
> > > > > And he is in a good position to do so.
> > > > > He has the prior production line and sales, and even the skills to
>back
> > >up
> > > > what he says.
> > > > > And he is a member of the list as well.
> > > > > And as a side remark again, I think rap is derogatory and at times
> > > > obscene. I think it promotes mostly hard feelings and I
> > > > > am not going to endorse it as a musicion nor as a conposer.
> > > > >
> > > > > Anyhow, I willnot teach my students any of it.
> > > > > The same thing goes for games.
> > > > > If you play a piece on a transposed key just because it is easier,
>and
> > > > then try to make a cd of it and call it good original
> > > > > work you will be cheating your audience.
> > > > > And this is what I mean by denounsing bsc.
> > > > > As a consumer, or as a developer.
> > > >
> > > > *Closed mindedness there or what? I personally don't like wrap
music
>but
> > > > have produced various grooves and so on for students to work with to
>play
> > > > with, more the point, to experiment with.
> > > >
> > > > > Also, there is a reason why midi music production is only part of
>the
> > > > internet at best.
> > > > > I have used it in the passed to compose scores for my students and
> > > > instructors, but beyond this, I can say that the sound
> > > > > has any value for me.
> > > > > But I digress again.
> > > > >
> > > > *So, your saying that MIDI music is incapable of sounding natural?
Is
> > >that
> > > > it? Your saying that MIDI music sounds cheezy? Your out of touch
>mate
> > >with
> > > > the business. Might I suggest you download some of my transcription
>work
> > >at
> > > > ftp.james.jolley@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > and that goes for anyone else who may be interested. I've spent
>thousands
> > > > on this business, i'm using top quality orchestral libraries and
would
> > > > hardly say my sequences are unnatural. Again, unvarified! Shows
what
>you
> > > > know about the history, the development, the ethics of MIDI
>composition.
> > > >
> > > > Best
> > > >
> > > > -James-
> > > > >
> > > > > Respecfully yours,
> > > > >
> > > > > Frank.
> > > > >
> > > > >
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>BlindGamers is the discussion list of the Audyssey community and all
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