[TCUG] Re: Wacky Ideas - Isolated Ped Crossings
- From: "Kinnaird, Dave" <D.Kinnaird@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: "'tcug@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'" <tcug@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 08:38:00 +0100
In Cardiff we use pre timed max and have recently been allowing more
pelicans to run under local control within UTC regions. I agree with Bruce
and we have adopted the philosophy that the all red period should always be
set to 3s. I could never work out before the justification for allowing a
min intergreen of 5s on a junction and 4s on a pelican / puffin / toucan
etc. Incidentally, we never allow our intergreens from vehicles to peds at
junctions to be less than 6s. This very rarely has any effect on capacity as
the ped min is normally less than the traffic min.
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Slattery [mailto:bruce_slattery@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: 16 June 2004 13:55
To: tcug@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [TCUG] Re: Wacky Ideas - Isolated Ped Crossings
I question the difference in safety terms between pretimed max and VA on =
very busy roads which almost never gap out. The safety factor is surely in =
the 'intergreen' time which can be set to be the same on pretimed max and =
VA so because of the peds who dash accross because they are fed up of =
waiting on VA sites I would have thought Pretimed max ought to be safer.
Regards=20
Bruce Slattery
Traffic Signals Manager
>>> mcrabtree@xxxxxxxxx 06/16/04 11:09am >>>
1. can I make a plea that all those using a pre-timed max add a 3-second
delay before the signals change. Otherwise peds learn that they get instant
service, walk straight out, possibly in front of a red-runner!
2. beware of using pre-timed max's on high speed roads, it could be dodgy to
say the least
3. remember that MOVA works very well at mid-block crossings (and I know
I've said it before, and I know it might be thought of as promoting MOVA on
behalf of TRL, but it is a genuine recommendation from me, because I've seen
just how effective it is. Contact me directly for more.)
Mark Crabtree
TRL Limited
-----Original Message-----
From: Wallis, Ian [mailto:Ian.Wallis@xxxxxxxxxxxx]=3D20=20
Sent: 16 June 2004 10:37
To: 'tcug@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'=20
Subject: [TCUG] Re: Wacky Ideas - Isolated Ped Crossings
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In Derby we adopt a pre-timed max mode of operation for crossings, even
those within a UTC region (with the odd exception). We find this gives the
ped priority that we are bound to provide while having little effect on UTC
operation. You do have to set your timings up with a bit more thought than
usual though.
I believe some Authorities (was one of them Nottingham?) did a study on this
and found that there was little justification for having crossings on plan
but good pedestrian benefits were obtained running them isolated. Does
anyone know where to put their hands on a report.
Incidentally, this use of pre-timed max coupled with sensible max times is
the main reason why we changed our policy and don't install kerbside
detectors as a matter of course.
Ian Wallis
Derby City Council
-----Original Message-----
From: Graham Jones [mailto:GWJones@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]=3D20=20
Sent: 16 June 2004 10:26
To: 'tcug@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'=20
Subject: [TCUG] Wacky Ideas - Isolated Ped Crossings
Has anyone investigated delays associated with the operation of isolated ped
crossings Outside my old Plymouth office there is a newly installed puffin
serving relatively few peds, say 1 per minute. Invariably, the practical
operation goes something like this.
1) Confronted with a constant flow of slow moving traffic, ped presses
button
2) traffic continues to roll
3) peds get very impatient
4) ped sees gap in traffic=3D20
5) ped crosses road
6) sensors detect gap in traffic.
7) signals turn red
8) traffic stopped at empty crossing=3D20
OK this particular crossing is particularly badly programmed, but I know of
similar sites which please neither peds nor drivers. Accepting that there
are UTC issues, I wonder if stopping traffic on ped demand would not result
in a net reduction in overall delay. I have not done my sums but leaving
aside pedestrian delay, it seems a choice between delaying a few free
flowing vehicles or more slow moving ones, which soon make up the lost
ground.
Anyone done any work on this.
Graham Jones
Traffic Analyst - Somerset County Council
Tel 01823 358235
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