[TCUG] Re: Wacky Ideas - Isolated Ped Crossings
- From: "Wallis, Ian" <Ian.Wallis@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: "'tcug@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'" <tcug@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 08:16:20 +0100
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On this "correctly operating Puffin" where does this gap in traffic come
from that is large enough for a pedestrian to cross in safety?
Surely if a safe gap exists then the crossing will change.
If the Puffin hasn't gapped, then there must still be vehicles being
detected ie. vehicles within 30m of the stopline doing maybe 30 mph.
It seems to me that except on very few occasions (queuing traffic) that this
will always be the case and the crossing will run to it's max or change at
the end of the traffic flow. So a properly set up Puffin will be likely to
change more often than not so there is no advantage having kerbside
detection and the disadvantages of increased installation costs, increased
maintenance costs and, at the moment, increased hassle due to unreliable
units do not justify any perceived benefits. One of those good ideas dreamt
up by someone sitting at a desk rather than with experience of the real
world I think.
So, we will continue to install our "Puffins" (One-cans?) with no kerbside
detection, but with on-crossings which do offer real benefits to both
pedestrians and traffic, and where possible they will be pre-timed max.
Ian Wallis
Derby City Council
-----Original Message-----
From: Ian Routledge [mailto:ian-routledge@xxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: 16 June 2004 10:53
To: tcug@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [TCUG] Re: Wacky Ideas - Isolated Ped Crossings
Graham
At a correctly operating Puffin the correct sequence of operation should be:
1) confronted with a constant flow of slow moving traffic, pedestrian
presses button
2) pedestrian sees gap in traffic
3) pedestrian crosses road
4) sensors detect pedestrian has crossed in the gap and cancels the demand.
A well set up Puffin will assist pedestrians and traffic reducing delay for
both by cancelling unnecessary pedestrian demands and only giving to
pedestrians the time they need - in many situations with lower pedestrian
flows and reasonable walking speeds this will result in a reduction of
pedestrian crossing time. A badly set up Puffin can increase delay and
frustration for drivers and pedestrians and it seems this is what you are
describing.
Getting a Puffin to work well takes a little effort but the results are well
worthwhile as a more and more authorities are confirming. DfT project UG336
is seeking to quantify the potential benefits of Puffins at a number of
sites and this information will be issued by DfT as soon as possible,
Also any idea what maximum green times are running at this site?
Ian Routledge
----- Original Message -----
From: "Graham Jones" <GWJones@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <tcug@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 10:25 AM
Subject: [TCUG] Wacky Ideas - Isolated Ped Crossings
Has anyone investigated delays associated with the operation of isolated ped
crossings
Outside my old Plymouth office there is a newly installed puffin serving
relatively few peds, say 1 per minute.
Invariably, the practical operation goes something like this.
1) Confronted with a constant flow of slow moving traffic, ped presses
button
2) traffic continues to roll
3) peds get very impatient
4) ped sees gap in traffic
5) ped crosses road
6) sensors detect gap in traffic.
7) signals turn red
8) traffic stopped at empty crossing
OK this particular crossing is particularly badly programmed, but I know of
similar sites which please neither peds nor drivers. Accepting that there
are UTC issues, I wonder if stopping traffic on ped demand would not result
in a net reduction in overall delay. I have not done my sums but leaving
aside pedestrian delay, it seems a choice between delaying a few free
flowing vehicles or more slow moving ones, which soon make up the lost
ground.
Anyone done any work on this.
Graham Jones
Traffic Analyst - Somerset County Council
Tel 01823 358235
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