[pure-silver] Re: archives
- From: Ron Schwarz <rs@xxxxxxxxxx>
- To: pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 15:25:26 -0400
05:09 PM 9/11/2004 +0100, Rob Champagne wrote:
>Karl and Matthew,
>If you had been following this thread from the beginning you would have
realised that the issue here is whether the list owner should add a
copyright notice to all messages saying that the message is copyright and
thereby taking on responsibilty for protecting that copyright on behalf of
the original sender of the message.
>Doing this leaves the list owner in a position where if any one person
decides to violate copyright of the message and someone then decides to
pursue a remedy in the courts, that remedy may be made against the list
owner for not protecting the copyright. By putting a message in the sign
up procedure to absolve himself or herself from responsibility for
protection of copyright on behalf of the message sender the list owner
minmises risk to themselves.
>
>What you need to consider is whether you would be prepared to take on that
responsibilty if you were running the list. If you are, then feel free to
volunteer.
>
>You will note that no one who has asked for copyright protection to be
added to the messages has volunteered to take on any kind of responsibility
for doing it.
>
>Personally I'm not bothered if someone produces a CD or not. I don't
believe it would be marketable. Lets face it, silver gelatin is a very
small niche market which is shrinking rapidly and the vast majority of what
is contained in the list is NOT original thinking and can be found in other
texts in a far better presented manner.
>
>Unfortunately there are one or two people who have been ANALysing the
copyright issue and those who feel strongly about it are, IMO, most likely
those who would attempt to sue.
>
>As has already been said, the archives are already available, i.e.
already publshed on the internet. Those who want it published on CD are
just too damn lazy to download it.
There is one potential situation in which a CD would be of marketable value.
That would be if someone were to sell a book, and include a copy of the CD
in one of those pouches glued to the back endleaf, and include a blurb on
the cover touting the inclusion of "The entire archives of the Pure-Silver
mailing list!"
While arguably this adds no "real" value, since anyone can download the
same archive from a variety of sources, it *does* add "market value", and
would quite likely help boost book sales.
Is anyone who is pushing for the "right" to burn and sell a CD also working
on a book in progress?
>Not publishing a CD is a NO risk option and why should anyone make the
effort to publish a CD for the lazy people who can't be bothered to
download the archives.
>
>Would you pay for a CD or download it for free?
>
>nuff said
>
>rob
>
>
>At 10/09/2004 23:40 -0700, you wrote:
>>Matthew,
>>
>>Unfortunately, the issue is not one of usage or one of ego. It is
>>simply a matter of liability on the part of Tim or Jim or whoever has
>>custody of anyone's writings who does not have blanket permission to
>>republish those writings. I would never presume that my scratchings are
>>specifically fighting for, but I would fight tooth and nail over my
>>RIGHTS to those writings. Anyone who cavalierly decides to republish
>>the original work of another without such permission is a fool, and Tim
>>and Jim have convinced me that they are definitely NOT foolish.
>>
>>Rob,
>>
>>It is NOT incumbent on me to further protect my works from illicit
>>reproduction by declaring that I own the copyright of what I am sending
>>to the list. My writings are protected by copyright law. There may be
>>some room for interpretation of that law, but basically, what I produce
>>is mine, unless I abrogate the aforementioned copyright.
>>
>>"If YOU want YOUR messages to be copyright protected then YOU take
>>responsibility for them and don't try to dump the responsibility onto
>>someone else."
>>
>>I do, and will use the full extent of the law to protect MY right to
>>maintain MY ownership of MY intellectual properties, should those
>>properties be deemed by ME to be worth protecting - my ramblings on this
>>list are not, so feel free to quote me.
>>
>>Karl Wolz
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: pure-silver-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>[mailto:pure-silver-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>>> On Behalf Of Matthew Gaylen
>>> Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 11:25 PM
>>> To: pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: [pure-silver] Re: archives
>>>
>>> cods wollop indeed...
>>>
>>> I find it more than a little bit arrogant that you think you've said
>>anything in the
>>> archives that would 1) be worth stealing, 2) selling and 3) be worth
>>pursuing for
>>> recompense.
>>>
>>> Most people who want a cd of the archives want it mostly so they can
>>refer to topics
>>> that have been covered before, like how to obtain sulphuric acid or
>>how to dissolve
>>> crystalized TF-4 or what a halide is and how it mates with ions etc.
>>>
>>> Nobody said they wanted to sell the archives to make money, the market
>>force here
>>> is people who want to refer to the archived information so they don't
>>ask redundant
>>> questions...
>>>
>>> In reality the market demand is probably something like 50 archive CDs
>>for $10--I
>>> can't imagine it would be worth any one contributor's time to pursue
>>reimbursement
>>> and I can't believe there's a lawyer or court in the land that would
>>take the case.
>>>
>>> <sigh>
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday, September 10, 2004, at 04:35PM, Rob Champagne
>>> <psps@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>
>>> >cods wallop!
>>> >
>>> >YOU should be declaring that YOU own the copyright of what YOU are
>>sending to
>>> the list. How do we know that what YOU are sending to the list is not
>>in breach of
>>> someone else's copyright.
>>> >If YOU want YOUR messages to be copyright protected then YOU take
>>> responsibility for them and don't try to dump the responsibility onto
>>someone else.
>>> >If YOU were true to YOUR word YOU would be doing this but YOU are
>>not. This is
>>> clearly a case of "Do what I say but not what I do".
>>> >
>>> >give it a rest...
>>> >
>>> >rob
>>> >
>>> >At 10/09/2004 17:12 -0400, you wrote:
>>> >>From: DarkroomMagic <info@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> >>Subject: [pure-silver] Re: archives
>>> >>Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 21:44:54 +0200
>>> >>
>>> >>> This is a purely hypothetical discussion anyway.
>>> >>
>>> >>Not really. If this were an empty issue, then there would be lots
>>of
>>> >>pure-silver CD-ROM's openly distributed by now. I don't think this
>>is
>>> >>much different from the need for model release form, property
>>release
>>> >>form, prints delivery form to galleries, license of rights for stock
>>> >>images, etc. Even when I shoot my friend for favor, I always ask for
>>a
>>> >>release and give them pretty much unlimited license for use of their
>>> >>images right away. They may need this when they print their images
>>> >>immediately or some time in the future. In my view, archiving a
>>> >>mailing list is not much different.
>>> >>
>>> >>Copyright related issues and licensing are a part of daily life of
>>> >>artists among others, so there are many resources online and in
>>> >>books/newsletters/magazines. There are many canned license forms
>>that
>>> >>you can use with minimal editing for most routine work. Only in
>>those
>>> >>unusual circumstances you might want to draft something and have
>>> >>lawyers review it, but those resources tell you what kinds of things
>>> >>are important to include.
>>> >>
>>> >>I do typographic work, making posters, and other printing related
>>> >>stuff for my projects from time to time. If I try to print a poster
>>> >>with a decent printing company, they need to know in writing we have
>>> >>proper licensing of rights with the original artists. This sort of
>>> >>things are very common in many aspects of creative activities, and I
>>> >>understand some of them are necessary mechanisms to protect original
>>> >>work.
>>> >>
>>> >>But there are other negative aspects of copyright, which I should
>>save
>>> >>for some other time.
>>> >>
>>> >>--
>>> >>Ryuji Suzuki
>>> >>"Keep a good head and always carry a light camera."
>>> >>=============================================================
>>> ================================================
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>>your account
>>> (the same e-mail address and password you set-up when you subscribed,)
>>and
>>> unsubscribe from there.
>>> >
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>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> joe suburbs the post modern hyper rural sub urban anti hero and
>>vertiginous
>>> surrealist
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--
Website: http://www.michi-kogaku.com/
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