I have no such qualms expressing a definite opinion. With jaws, it takes me one key, one, to navigate by heading on a website. With voice over, it takes 4. This is true about navigating by any other html element. This is simply ridiculous. The modality of access for a blind user is already heavily burdoned by multiple mapping structures, context aware configuration changes, etc, etc ... Four keys to just navigate by a heading ... Really? Take care, Sina -----Original Message----- From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Andreas Stefik Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2010 1:57 PM To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: New programmer On Sat, May 1, 2010 at 12:47 PM, Donald Marang <donald.marang@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: I would think it would work since VoiceOver is now part of the OS and I have not heard too many mainstream features not available. Apple has definitely made strides. I'm not criticizing. We do work with them directly, though, and are on the mailing lists of course. But really, when it really comes down to it, NetBeans is over 2 million lines of code and that's enough work keeping up as it is! Voice over support is also much more flexible than some systems, but like anything, there's no silver bullet. When you get into the nitty, gritty, details, things get complicated. My team is also massively less familiar with objective C and the apple APIs, which are basically another planet. I mean, folks know how this goes --- pros and cons, pros and cons, Stefik __________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind