[opendtv] Re: MPAA wants to stop DVRs from recording some movies
- From: John Willkie <johnwillkie@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 18:33:02 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Adam;
That sounds like fun. Are you going to be in Burbank in mid-July? It looks
like I will be there for a few days, even if I'm not sure why I was invited. I
might even shave.
I've learned to be careful about saying my generator can do something. The day
after I mentioned midi feedback, that stopped working. And, despite the system
chugging away at my first customer's station, until very early this morning, it
had been 'more than a month' since I could publish a working system from my
code. This was basically because I tried to change three different things at
the same time, and had problems with at least two of them.
I'm at the point where I can transmit reliably any MPEG-2 table section (or any
other array of bytes) on just about any schedule.
When I first heard the 5% fee proposal (IIRC, in mid-1995) which was placed
there by former Senator Ernest Hollings, my first thought was that the
government was unlikely to ever collect much, if anything on it. Heck, it
applies to the first dollar and the last dollar, with no set-asides, credits or
allowances. Even applies to non-commercial stations and LPTVs.
It stifles innovation, and it was placed there just to serve the interests of
cable and telephone companies, which don't have a similar requirement, and
which have barely done what they "premised" in the 1996 Act amendments.
No, there's no invisible elephant in this room; not at all.
John Willkie, who'd better turn back to bashing bert, let he get into real
trouble.
-----Original Message-----
>From: Adam Goldberg <adam_g@xxxxxxxxx>
>Sent: Jun 28, 2008 4:37 PM
>To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: [opendtv] Re: MPAA wants to stop DVRs from recording some movies
>
>John,
>
>I happen to know quite a bit about A/70 (sadly). Next time I see you
>face-to-face, remind me and I'll tell you in great detail why I'm sad.
>
>In any case, no, to my knowledge, no one has ever implemented A/70. There's
>nothing in there that's difficult to do, nor any stuff which would require
>bending-over-backwards by a PSIP generator. What's missing is commercial
>need. 5% off the top to the feds, coupled with zero installed base (and a
>couple of dozen non-technical problems) leads to "not happening".
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>Behalf Of John Willkie
>Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2008 7:20 PM
>To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: [opendtv] Re: MPAA wants to stop DVRs from recording some movies
>
>I can giggle.
>
>Do you know of anybody that has implemented or deployed it?
>
>Thankfully, nobody to date [aside from 'something' to which I probably
>shouldn't even allude] has never suggested to me that I even need to know
>about word one about encryption.
>
>I've tried to understand A/70, but lacking customer/market pull, it tends to
>glassify my eyes within minutes. I do remember something about key chaining,
>including triple-encryption (encode/decode/encode) all with different keys.
>
>I only 'think' that I can take in the data via PMCP and output something in
>PSIP, but never having tested that functionality, even 'think' might be an
>exaggeration.
>
>I must be a fool, since I not only make mistakes here (and there), but I
>(sometimes belatedly) admit them, without feeling the need for a dose of the
>little blue pill (or equivalents.) Besides, I don't think those drugs make
>people smarter, per se.
>
>John Willkie, who once had a buddy that would say "per se" at least once per
>three sentences.
>
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Adam Goldberg <adam_g@xxxxxxxxx>
>>Sent: Jun 28, 2008 6:59 PM
>>To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>Subject: [opendtv] Re: MPAA wants to stop DVRs from recording some movies
>>
>>Just for giggles, ATSC A/70 -->is<-- a Simulcrypt-based system. And the fact
>>is it doesn't matter which PID the EMMs and ECMs are carried with. I don't
>>know what you mean by "MPEG-2 Encryption", except perhaps DVB-CSA ... but
>>more likely, nowadays on a newly-fielded system, to be something else.
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>>Behalf Of John Willkie
>>Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2008 5:03 PM
>>To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>Subject: [opendtv] Re: MPAA wants to stop DVRs from recording some movies
>>
>>here are the choices: you, in the posting below, either
>>
>>1) don't know the meaning of "is", or
>>2) are just typing to hear your lips flap, or
>>3) can't comprehend English-language sentences
>>
>>(or some combination)
>>
>>I said -- and I quote from the message below "I don't think anyone in the
>>U.S. is using ATSC to transmit encrypted a/v content"
>>
>>You offer up USDTV, and you mention that they aren't in business. Note the
>>"is using" in the above sentence. Does the dichotomy escape you?
>>
>>I should have said "ATSC technologies." I don't think USDTV used an ATSC
>>standard for encryption, perhaps Sezmi (the release only came out last week;
>>and I thought I was having short-term memory issues) uses ATSC technologies,
>>but I suspect they use Simulcrypt or something else. Nothing requires
>>encryption to use ATSC-specific technologies, and there is already MPEG-2
>>encryption, which anyone can use, even ATSC broadcasters.
>>
>>MPEG-2 ECMs and EMMs (entitlement communications messages and entitlement
>>management messages) all travel on pid 1 with a table_id of 1; ATSC uses at
>>the very least, different table_id values and specifies several techniques,
>>while in MPEG-2, it's all "user private."
>>
>>John Willkie
>>
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: Tom Barry <trbarry@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>Sent: Jun 28, 2008 4:23 PM
>>>To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>Subject: [opendtv] Re: MPAA wants to stop DVRs from recording some movies
>>>
>>>Didn't the old and now failed USDTV have some encrypted channels? And I
>>>thought there was also some new (but announced) startup that operated
>>>similarly but also used the Internet in addition to ATSC sub-channels.
>>>Something with a big hard drive but I don't remember the name or details.
>>>
>>>I tend to avoid purchasing encrypted pay channels because I'm cheap and
>>>also usually cannot then use them to view on my computer driven system
>>>due to the copy protection. But I don't really have anything against
>>>them in principle. Like advertising supported material (or a mix of
>>>both) I think they fit in a valid business model.
>>>
>>>- Tom
>>>
>>>John Willkie wrote:
>>>> to pick a nit, the only restriction on over the air broadcasters in the
>>>> U.S. is that they transmit a single a/v channel (at least equivalent to an
>>>> NTSC channel in quality) in the clear.
>>>>
>>>> They can transmit any other virtual channels encrypted. I don't think
>>>> anyone in the U.S. is using ATSC to transmit encrypted a/v content.
>>>> Encrypted content, or non-advertiser supported content, invokes payment of
>>>> 5% of net revenues for that service to the U.S. government.
>>>>
>>>> The relevance of this distinction might be illustrated in practice in the
>>>> not-so-distant future.
>>>>
>>>> John Willkie
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Craig Birkmaier <craig@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> Sent: Jun 28, 2008 5:03 AM
>>>>> To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> Subject: [opendtv] Re: MPAA wants to stop DVRs from recording some movies
>>>>>
>>>>> At 9:53 PM -0400 6/27/08, Albert Manfredi wrote:
>>>>>> > You know, sort of like locking your car. No one is allowed
>>>>>>> to steal stuff from your car, or steal the car itself. That
>>>>>>> does NOT mean that car manufacturers don't need to install
>>>>>>> locks, however. They should, definitely.
>>>>>> In this climate of proud and deliberate, peristent, obtuseness, I
>>>>>> should not have used the above analogy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My intention was merely to say that the problem of unlawful copy
>>>>>> protection can be attacked at both ends. At the FOTA broadcaster or
>>>>>> content owner's end (supply), copy protection is not allowed. Period.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But that DOES NOT mean that CE manufacturers have to trust the
>>>>>> supply end to do what's lawful. Since there are simple means to make
>>>>>> the system work as the courts intend, CE vendors should use those
>>>>>> simple means. No need to trust the other guy to be doing the right
>>>>>> thing, in this case.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Or restated, you are NOT "circumventing" a copy protection
>>>>>> mechanism, since such mechanism does not, or more accurately should
>>>>>> not, by law, exist.
>>>>> The only restriction on FTA broadcasts is that they be delivered in
>>>>> the free and clear. The Betamax decision did not say that copy
>>>>> protection is not allowed, only that using the VCRfor time shifting
>>>>> was a non infringing use.
>>>>>
>>>>> Can you show me anything that says that broadcasters CANNOT invoke a
>>>>> regimen that restricts copying of a program?
>>>>>
>>>>> The real issue is whether they can force the manufacturers of
>>>>> downstream devices to honor any attempts to restrict copying. They
>>>>> tried with the Broadcast Flag, but lost because the courts ruled that
>>>>> the FCC does not have the authority to regulate how devices that are
>>>>> used to view broadcasts deal with this issue.. Note, tat they can
>>>>> regulate some aspects of what a TV receiver is, thanks to the All
>>>>> Channel Receiver Act, which gave them the authority to require HF and
>>>>> now ATSC receivers in a device.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards
>>>>> Craig
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
>>>--
>>>Tom Barry trbarry@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
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>
>
>
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