[opendtv] Re: MPAA wants to stop DVRs from recording some movies

yowza! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lKhaCAIbbw

John Willkie

-----Original Message-----
>From: John Willkie <johnwillkie@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Sent: Jun 27, 2008 1:40 AM
>To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx, opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: [opendtv] Re: MPAA wants to stop DVRs from recording some movies
>
>no, you are wrong, at least to extent.  Just because you can generally record 
>things, NOTHING prevents the content owner or distributor from using 
>technology that is included in devices that you freely bought to prevent you 
>from recording things.
>
>And, you are wrong as to your "legal right" since, if a device obeys 
>Macrovision, you freely bought the device, in a field that includes at least 
>some devices that do not obey Macrovision; you effectively waived the ability.
>
>You may feel you have been fooled, but that gives you no cause of action (in 
>other words, you have no legal right) to bring a case in court to assert this 
>putative right.  
>
>Don't believe me?  Take a damn case to court against either the content owner, 
>the distributor, or the hardware vendor (or some combination of these) and you 
>will be very lucky if you don't have to pay the other side's legal fees after 
>you loose, since this putative "right" doesn't exist.  Indeed, the Betamax 
>decision will actually be used against you.
>
>I can only presume that you think you have this "right" because you have 
>either not read, or do not understand the Betamax decision, or have only 
>looked at it in the light most favorable to you and you have ignored the parts 
>that are not favorable to your cause.
>
>You want to go to Congress?  That will be a royal screwing.  What happended 
>with Digital Audio tape and recorders is that 1) the recorders were hobbled BY 
>LAW and 2) you had to pay a tax that was used to enrich creepy record 
>companies, and in the breach, a few artists. (Including, presumably, one 
>creepy artist.)
>
>Then, let's add in the effect of the DMCA.  If you try to circumvent (I hear 
>it's hard, but I have no reason to try) the Macrovision protection, you can be 
>held to have circumvented a copy-protection mechanism, and you might face 
>prison time, plus $150,000 per title.
>
>I am just totally amazed by the proven ability of some people to type, yet 
>fail to understand almost anything about this subject.  Craig and I disagree 
>about much, but he was at least awake when all this happened and has informed 
>opinions.  
>
>Did you miss the fact that Adam and I are largely in agreement about the 
>various legal situations, and that he doesn't work for Haolewood, but in the 
>CE field?  I'm not necessarily much of a fan of all of this, but I find that 
>dealing with what is is much more realistic than living as if what I would 
>prefer is the situation.
>
>Where's my Marshall Crenshaw?  I need to hear "Cynical Girl."
>
>John Willkie
>  
>
>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Tom Barry <trbarry@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>Sent: Jun 27, 2008 1:07 AM
>>To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>Subject: [opendtv] Re: MPAA wants to stop DVRs from recording some movies
>>
>>The point is I have the legal right to make home recordings of such 
>>media as I can legally access there.  Nothing you have said makes my 
>>original statement below any less true.
>>
>>- Tom
>>
>>John Willkie wrote:
>>> perhaps, but you have missed the point, since your consumer "rights" start 
>>> and end with what you buy, not with what a content owner can or can't 
>>> prevent you from recording.  Them's their rights, not yours.
>>> 
>>> These things have been litigated in the courts, and your putative "rights" 
>>> didn't survive.
>>> 
>>> Caveat emptor! (for those in Rio Linda, that means "buyer beware" not 
>>> "viewer beware."
>>> 
>>> Create your own content, and the situation is a bit different.  But, 
>>> there's a reason why Lambchop and Punch and Judy are no longer on TV; 
>>> consumers demand more sophisticated content, even for kids.
>>> 
>>> John Willkie
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Tom Barry <trbarry@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> Sent: Jun 26, 2008 11:36 PM
>>>> To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Subject: [opendtv] Re: MPAA wants to stop DVRs from recording some movies
>>>>
>>>> The discussion has ranged somewhat far and wide on consumer vs copy 
>>>> rights.  I'll stand by both the truth and relevance of my statement.
>>>>
>>>> - Tom
>>>>
>>>> John Willkie wrote:
>>>>> "Nobody is required to give you the means to do so but they also may not 
>>>>> currently 
>>>>> use the law to stop you if you are able to do it yourself in that 
>>>>> situation."
>>>>>
>>>>> Tom, you are not making sense, and the if in the sentence highlights 
>>>>> that. "They" don't need to use the law to stop you; they only need to use 
>>>>> electronics.  And, that's what we're discussing (by the way.)
>>>>>
>>>>> John Willkie
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Tom Barry <trbarry@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> Sent: Jun 26, 2008 6:47 PM
>>>>>> To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> Subject: [opendtv] Re: MPAA wants to stop DVRs from recording some movies
>>>>>>
>>>>>> However if the media can be legally accessed then there is currently 
>>>>>> nothing that says it may not also be legally time shifted.  Nobody is 
>>>>>> required to give you the means to do so but they also may not currently 
>>>>>> use the law to stop you if you are able to do it yourself in that 
>>>>>> situation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Tom
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mark Schubin wrote:
>>>>>>> dan.grimes@xxxxxxxx wrote:
>>>>>>>> Naturally. But if a movie is released to an MVPD, I would think that 
>>>>>>>> this is giving one access to the movie. Now that one has access, would 
>>>>>>>> it not be "fair use" to record the movie on a DVR to view later? Or am 
>>>>>>>> I missing your point?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If I sell my book, and you buy it (or look at it in a library) and 
>>>>>>> quote 
>>>>>>> it, that's fair use.  If I hold it in front of you and flash it open 
>>>>>>> and 
>>>>>>> closed, and you say, "Open it again; I couldn't read it," and I say, 
>>>>>>> "No," there's nothing about fair use that says that I have to open it 
>>>>>>> again for you.  So, if content is made available to be seen for a 
>>>>>>> certain time period but not recorded, there's nothing about fair use 
>>>>>>> that requires it to be made available for recording.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> TTFN,
>>>>>>> Mark
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> Tom Barry                  trbarry@xxxxxxxxxxx   
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways:
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>>>>>  
>>>>>  
>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways:
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> Tom Barry                  trbarry@xxxxxxxxxxx     
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>> 
>>>  
>>>  
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>> 
>>
>>-- 
>>Tom Barry                  trbarry@xxxxxxxxxxx        
>>
>> 
>> 
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>
> 
> 
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