[opendtv] Re: MPAA wants to stop DVRs from recording some movies
- From: John Willkie <johnwillkie@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx, opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx, opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 01:48:41 -0400 (EDT)
yowza! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lKhaCAIbbw
John Willkie
-----Original Message-----
>From: John Willkie <johnwillkie@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Sent: Jun 27, 2008 1:40 AM
>To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx, opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: [opendtv] Re: MPAA wants to stop DVRs from recording some movies
>
>no, you are wrong, at least to extent. Just because you can generally record
>things, NOTHING prevents the content owner or distributor from using
>technology that is included in devices that you freely bought to prevent you
>from recording things.
>
>And, you are wrong as to your "legal right" since, if a device obeys
>Macrovision, you freely bought the device, in a field that includes at least
>some devices that do not obey Macrovision; you effectively waived the ability.
>
>You may feel you have been fooled, but that gives you no cause of action (in
>other words, you have no legal right) to bring a case in court to assert this
>putative right.
>
>Don't believe me? Take a damn case to court against either the content owner,
>the distributor, or the hardware vendor (or some combination of these) and you
>will be very lucky if you don't have to pay the other side's legal fees after
>you loose, since this putative "right" doesn't exist. Indeed, the Betamax
>decision will actually be used against you.
>
>I can only presume that you think you have this "right" because you have
>either not read, or do not understand the Betamax decision, or have only
>looked at it in the light most favorable to you and you have ignored the parts
>that are not favorable to your cause.
>
>You want to go to Congress? That will be a royal screwing. What happended
>with Digital Audio tape and recorders is that 1) the recorders were hobbled BY
>LAW and 2) you had to pay a tax that was used to enrich creepy record
>companies, and in the breach, a few artists. (Including, presumably, one
>creepy artist.)
>
>Then, let's add in the effect of the DMCA. If you try to circumvent (I hear
>it's hard, but I have no reason to try) the Macrovision protection, you can be
>held to have circumvented a copy-protection mechanism, and you might face
>prison time, plus $150,000 per title.
>
>I am just totally amazed by the proven ability of some people to type, yet
>fail to understand almost anything about this subject. Craig and I disagree
>about much, but he was at least awake when all this happened and has informed
>opinions.
>
>Did you miss the fact that Adam and I are largely in agreement about the
>various legal situations, and that he doesn't work for Haolewood, but in the
>CE field? I'm not necessarily much of a fan of all of this, but I find that
>dealing with what is is much more realistic than living as if what I would
>prefer is the situation.
>
>Where's my Marshall Crenshaw? I need to hear "Cynical Girl."
>
>John Willkie
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Tom Barry <trbarry@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>Sent: Jun 27, 2008 1:07 AM
>>To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>Subject: [opendtv] Re: MPAA wants to stop DVRs from recording some movies
>>
>>The point is I have the legal right to make home recordings of such
>>media as I can legally access there. Nothing you have said makes my
>>original statement below any less true.
>>
>>- Tom
>>
>>John Willkie wrote:
>>> perhaps, but you have missed the point, since your consumer "rights" start
>>> and end with what you buy, not with what a content owner can or can't
>>> prevent you from recording. Them's their rights, not yours.
>>>
>>> These things have been litigated in the courts, and your putative "rights"
>>> didn't survive.
>>>
>>> Caveat emptor! (for those in Rio Linda, that means "buyer beware" not
>>> "viewer beware."
>>>
>>> Create your own content, and the situation is a bit different. But,
>>> there's a reason why Lambchop and Punch and Judy are no longer on TV;
>>> consumers demand more sophisticated content, even for kids.
>>>
>>> John Willkie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Tom Barry <trbarry@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> Sent: Jun 26, 2008 11:36 PM
>>>> To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Subject: [opendtv] Re: MPAA wants to stop DVRs from recording some movies
>>>>
>>>> The discussion has ranged somewhat far and wide on consumer vs copy
>>>> rights. I'll stand by both the truth and relevance of my statement.
>>>>
>>>> - Tom
>>>>
>>>> John Willkie wrote:
>>>>> "Nobody is required to give you the means to do so but they also may not
>>>>> currently
>>>>> use the law to stop you if you are able to do it yourself in that
>>>>> situation."
>>>>>
>>>>> Tom, you are not making sense, and the if in the sentence highlights
>>>>> that. "They" don't need to use the law to stop you; they only need to use
>>>>> electronics. And, that's what we're discussing (by the way.)
>>>>>
>>>>> John Willkie
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Tom Barry <trbarry@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> Sent: Jun 26, 2008 6:47 PM
>>>>>> To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> Subject: [opendtv] Re: MPAA wants to stop DVRs from recording some movies
>>>>>>
>>>>>> However if the media can be legally accessed then there is currently
>>>>>> nothing that says it may not also be legally time shifted. Nobody is
>>>>>> required to give you the means to do so but they also may not currently
>>>>>> use the law to stop you if you are able to do it yourself in that
>>>>>> situation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Tom
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mark Schubin wrote:
>>>>>>> dan.grimes@xxxxxxxx wrote:
>>>>>>>> Naturally. But if a movie is released to an MVPD, I would think that
>>>>>>>> this is giving one access to the movie. Now that one has access, would
>>>>>>>> it not be "fair use" to record the movie on a DVR to view later? Or am
>>>>>>>> I missing your point?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If I sell my book, and you buy it (or look at it in a library) and
>>>>>>> quote
>>>>>>> it, that's fair use. If I hold it in front of you and flash it open
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> closed, and you say, "Open it again; I couldn't read it," and I say,
>>>>>>> "No," there's nothing about fair use that says that I have to open it
>>>>>>> again for you. So, if content is made available to be seen for a
>>>>>>> certain time period but not recorded, there's nothing about fair use
>>>>>>> that requires it to be made available for recording.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> TTFN,
>>>>>>> Mark
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Tom Barry trbarry@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways:
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>>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Tom Barry trbarry@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways:
>>>
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>>>
>>
>>--
>>Tom Barry trbarry@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
>
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