no, you are wrong, at least to extent. Just because you can generally record things, NOTHING prevents the content owner or distributor from using technology that is included in devices that you freely bought to prevent you from recording things. And, you are wrong as to your "legal right" since, if a device obeys Macrovision, you freely bought the device, in a field that includes at least some devices that do not obey Macrovision; you effectively waived the ability. You may feel you have been fooled, but that gives you no cause of action (in other words, you have no legal right) to bring a case in court to assert this putative right. Don't believe me? Take a damn case to court against either the content owner, the distributor, or the hardware vendor (or some combination of these) and you will be very lucky if you don't have to pay the other side's legal fees after you loose, since this putative "right" doesn't exist. Indeed, the Betamax decision will actually be used against you. I can only presume that you think you have this "right" because you have either not read, or do not understand the Betamax decision, or have only looked at it in the light most favorable to you and you have ignored the parts that are not favorable to your cause. You want to go to Congress? That will be a royal screwing. What happended with Digital Audio tape and recorders is that 1) the recorders were hobbled BY LAW and 2) you had to pay a tax that was used to enrich creepy record companies, and in the breach, a few artists. (Including, presumably, one creepy artist.) Then, let's add in the effect of the DMCA. If you try to circumvent (I hear it's hard, but I have no reason to try) the Macrovision protection, you can be held to have circumvented a copy-protection mechanism, and you might face prison time, plus $150,000 per title. I am just totally amazed by the proven ability of some people to type, yet fail to understand almost anything about this subject. Craig and I disagree about much, but he was at least awake when all this happened and has informed opinions. Did you miss the fact that Adam and I are largely in agreement about the various legal situations, and that he doesn't work for Haolewood, but in the CE field? I'm not necessarily much of a fan of all of this, but I find that dealing with what is is much more realistic than living as if what I would prefer is the situation. Where's my Marshall Crenshaw? I need to hear "Cynical Girl." John Willkie -----Original Message----- >From: Tom Barry <trbarry@xxxxxxxxxxx> >Sent: Jun 27, 2008 1:07 AM >To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >Subject: [opendtv] Re: MPAA wants to stop DVRs from recording some movies > >The point is I have the legal right to make home recordings of such >media as I can legally access there. Nothing you have said makes my >original statement below any less true. > >- Tom > >John Willkie wrote: >> perhaps, but you have missed the point, since your consumer "rights" start >> and end with what you buy, not with what a content owner can or can't >> prevent you from recording. Them's their rights, not yours. >> >> These things have been litigated in the courts, and your putative "rights" >> didn't survive. >> >> Caveat emptor! (for those in Rio Linda, that means "buyer beware" not >> "viewer beware." >> >> Create your own content, and the situation is a bit different. But, there's >> a reason why Lambchop and Punch and Judy are no longer on TV; consumers >> demand more sophisticated content, even for kids. >> >> John Willkie >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Tom Barry <trbarry@xxxxxxxxxxx> >>> Sent: Jun 26, 2008 11:36 PM >>> To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>> Subject: [opendtv] Re: MPAA wants to stop DVRs from recording some movies >>> >>> The discussion has ranged somewhat far and wide on consumer vs copy >>> rights. I'll stand by both the truth and relevance of my statement. >>> >>> - Tom >>> >>> John Willkie wrote: >>>> "Nobody is required to give you the means to do so but they also may not >>>> currently >>>> use the law to stop you if you are able to do it yourself in that >>>> situation." >>>> >>>> Tom, you are not making sense, and the if in the sentence highlights that. >>>> "They" don't need to use the law to stop you; they only need to use >>>> electronics. And, that's what we're discussing (by the way.) >>>> >>>> John Willkie >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Tom Barry <trbarry@xxxxxxxxxxx> >>>>> Sent: Jun 26, 2008 6:47 PM >>>>> To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>>> Subject: [opendtv] Re: MPAA wants to stop DVRs from recording some movies >>>>> >>>>> However if the media can be legally accessed then there is currently >>>>> nothing that says it may not also be legally time shifted. Nobody is >>>>> required to give you the means to do so but they also may not currently >>>>> use the law to stop you if you are able to do it yourself in that >>>>> situation. >>>>> >>>>> - Tom >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Mark Schubin wrote: >>>>>> dan.grimes@xxxxxxxx wrote: >>>>>>> Naturally. But if a movie is released to an MVPD, I would think that >>>>>>> this is giving one access to the movie. Now that one has access, would >>>>>>> it not be "fair use" to record the movie on a DVR to view later? Or am >>>>>>> I missing your point? >>>>>>> >>>>>> If I sell my book, and you buy it (or look at it in a library) and quote >>>>>> it, that's fair use. If I hold it in front of you and flash it open and >>>>>> closed, and you say, "Open it again; I couldn't read it," and I say, >>>>>> "No," there's nothing about fair use that says that I have to open it >>>>>> again for you. So, if content is made available to be seen for a >>>>>> certain time period but not recorded, there's nothing about fair use >>>>>> that requires it to be made available for recording. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> TTFN, >>>>>> Mark >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways: >>>>>> >>>>>> - Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at >>>>>> FreeLists.org >>>>>> - By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word >>>>>> unsubscribe in the subject line. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Tom Barry trbarry@xxxxxxxxxxx >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways: >>>>> >>>>> - Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at >>>>> FreeLists.org >>>>> >>>>> - By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word >>>>> unsubscribe in the subject line. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways: >>>> >>>> - Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at >>>> FreeLists.org >>>> >>>> - By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word >>>> unsubscribe in the subject line. >>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> Tom Barry trbarry@xxxxxxxxxxx >>> >>> >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways: >>> >>> - Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at >>> FreeLists.org >>> >>> - By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word >>> unsubscribe in the subject line. >>> >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways: >> >> - Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at >> FreeLists.org >> >> - By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word >> unsubscribe in the subject line. >> >> > >-- >Tom Barry trbarry@xxxxxxxxxxx > > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways: > >- Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at >FreeLists.org > >- By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word >unsubscribe in the subject line. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways: - Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at FreeLists.org - By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line.