[muglo] Re: "kettle of fish" [VERY OFF]
- From: Eric Dunbar <eric.dunbar@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: muglo@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 12:37:01 -0500
Ahh (sigh of satisfaction). A discussion after my own heart...
etymology :) :) :)
> I decided to look up the definition of kettle, in case it might throw some
> light on the question. There were a couple of minor surprises, such as the
> 5th definition from the American Heritage Dictionary and the reference to
> kettle being a quantity by the more modern WordNet definition number 2.
>
> KETTLE
> n.=20
> 1. A metal pot, usually with a lid, for boiling or stewing.
> 2. A teakettle.
> 3. Music. A kettledrum.
> 4. Geology. A depression left in a mass of glacial drift, formed b=
> y
> the melting of an isolated block of glacial ice.
> 5. A pothole. [I wonder if this has roots in Britain? I've never
> heard it used in Canada.]
>
> [Middle English ketel, from Old Norse ketill, and Old English cetel both
> from Latin catllus, diminutive of catnus, large bowl.]
>
> SOURCE: The American Heritage=AE Dictionary of the English Language, 4th Ed.
> Copyright =A9 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
>
From the Bible of the English language (Oxford Universal Dictionary,
the "short version"... it's only 8"x11"x3"):
Kettle. ME. [a. ON. <i>ketill</i> = OE. <i>cetel</i>, G.
<i>kessel</i>; CTeut. ad. L. <i>catillus</i>, dim. of catinus vessel
for food.]
It seems the etymology of word relates to that item we use on the
stove. However,...
Defintion "3. Short for kettledrum. <i>Haml.</i> V.ii.286. (a musical
instrument, not likely related to a k. of fish I'm guessing)
And, on the subject of "A k. of fish" the OED has this to say:
Phr. <i>A k. of fish.</i> a. On the Tweed, etc. A picnic at which a
kettle of fish cooked <i>al fresco</i> is the chief thing eaten; also
simply <i>kettle</i> 1791. b. <i>fig.</i> A disagreeable or awkward
state of things 1742.
No information on the origin of the saying but at least there's an
earliest date that goes with it as a starting point ;).
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