Re: [MoAccess] Motif ES USB not working
- From: <driza97@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <MoAccess@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 17:07:22 -0500
Dang B? This is a keeper right here! lol!! Put this in your own mo pedia
kids!! lol!! man!!
What Da Hzzy!
Driza aka Drizabizeats
----- Original Message -----
From: Bryan Smart
To: MoAccess@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 3:48 PM
Subject: Re: [MoAccess] Motif ES USB not working
I don't think that Yamaha left those sounds out of the Motif just so you'd
buy the DX card. You can play the DX card live, but it is a pain to sequence
with it. The PLG cards were always a very sloppy type of add on to the Motif.
You're right, there aren't too many DX7 rhodes type voices on the ES. The XS
has some very nice ones, but there aren't too many of them. Honestly, I heard
so many of those in the 80's, that if I ever use one now, the track feels too
retro.
Something to keep in mind, though, is that most of the Motif sounds are meant
to be modified. Most of the real instrument voices are very practical (mega
clean guitar, after 1983 rhodes, la piano, etc). These are basic starting
places where you can tweak a bit and make your own voice. Roland and Kurzweil
are bad about making specialty voices that are too extreme in any direction to
be easily modifiable. The Motif voices are designed to be general purpose
voices that can be either used by themselves, or used as starting points to
create other voices. The XS, for example, has a voice that is pretty much a
basic DX7 rhodes with almost no effects. The sound has several layers to it,
and is very expressive, but isn't mixed like you might remember it in your
favorite hit song. What you're supposed to do is to take this basic voice and
edit it to get the sound that you want. For example, pan the elements out and
put slow stereo chorus on it, and you have a Chicago sounding keyboard voice.
Put deep chorusing and heavy compression on it, and you sound like a Keith
Sweat kind of slow jam voice. When ever I had an idea for a guitar voice, on
the ES, I'd start with the Mega Clean guitar voice, since it already had all of
the layering/expressive programming setup, but was dry and basic in almost
every other way. Then, I'd tweak effects, change the way the controllers were
able to adjust the sound, and save that as a user voice.
The Motif has good presets. A person that is just concerned with the
composition side of song writing will just be satisfied to dial up a DX rhodes
voice. However, if you're at the stage where you have ideas about how you want
a sound to be different, then you need to get into editing. Editing doesn't
mean starting from absolute scratch. In fact, I avoid starting from absolute
scratch, unless I have no other choice. Starting from scratch takes a lot of
work. Where we are with the Motif is that just about every aspect of the voice
is adjustable. Yamaha starts with basic recordings of strings being plucked,
tines being struck, basic synthesizer waveforms cycling, and uses the synth
engine to shape them into voices that you play. We aren't living back in the
80's where using a sampler meant that you were playing a recording of an
instrument that was prerecorded with effects, a static envelope, etc.
Here is an example. When people start wanting to edit voices on a keyboard,
they're pushed to that because they don't like the tone quality, or they don't
like the effects that are used on a voice. For example, for a rhodes, you might
think that the rhodes sound is too full (like it should be playing solo instead
of in an ensemble), or else you don't like the fact that it is all chorus up
like a dyno rhodes, when you'd rather it be panning back and forth like in an
R&B ballad. When people get to the point that they care about such things, they
flip through the presets, and get annoyed that there are only a few rhodes
sounds that have autopanner, or only a few of them are thin enough to sit well
in a mix. The thing is, what you hear in the Motif, for the most part, are
examples of what you could create, not the full list of what is possible.
When it comes to the tone of a sound, you could take any of the rhodes
sounds, or any of the DX pianos, for example, and adjust the tone in many ways.
Every voice is processed through a dedicated three band equalizer. The middle
band is even parametric. Even when you're in song or pattern mode, and are
using 16 voices all at once, each of your voices can still use its equalizer.
As a basic example, you can switch to a preset voice in voice mode, use the
knobs to eq it differently, and then save that as a user voice. It doesn't
matter that you only changed the tone of the voice. That is still a custom
voice that you made. It is how you like the voice to sound. If using the
voice's three band eq isn't enough to get the tone the way that you want, each
of the 8 elements (or oscillators) that make up a voice has its own eq. SO, if
you have a voice that is a combination of piano and strings, you can eq just
the piano, and then save the voice. If that isn't enough, each of the elements
also has a filter. Most inexperienced users will just think of the default kind
of low pass filter, the type that dulls the sound as you close it, but the
Motif has many different types of filters that you can use to shape the tone of
the voice.
When it comes to the effects of a sound, the Motif has lots of options. The
ES has a boat load of effects, and the XS has even higher quality modeled
effects. Each voice can use two effects processors at once. A lot of what goes
into making a sound in a pop song is the effects processing. Most people know
about effects like reverb and chorus, but if you care about the particulars of
how a voice sounds, then you should study how the other effects work, like
compression, phasers, flangers, and the more complex types of reverb (gated,
early reflections, plate/spring reverb types, etc). For example, if you've ever
heard a DX7 rhodes sound, from a real DX7, with out effects, you'd know that it
is horrible. It sounds like a cheesy toy. On all of those songs that you
remember from the 80's, the mix engineers would need to figure out something
creative to do with the DX7 to make it sound better. Since its sound was so
thin, chorusing helped the tone sound a lot less like sine waves, and
compression helped reduce the problem of how the softly played notes were
nearly impossible to hear. Every mix engineer, though, had their own effects
units and settings for chorus and compression, and that is why there is such a
wide variety of tones that ended up on pop and R&B records. In the late 80's
and early 90's, when digital sampling keyboards were starting to get
affordable, they'd have programs in them that made DX7 rhodes type sounds, but
those programs used recordings of a DX7 that were already processed up with
effects to have that chorused sound that we'd all heard from the radio. That
sucked, because that one tone was the only tone that you could get from the
keyboard. If you wanted a different type of tone on those keyboards, you need
to switch patches, buy some sample upgrades (if the keyboard even supported
it), or buy another keyboard. The Motif isn't like that. The Motif has samples
of an unprocessed DX7 rhodes in it. The preset voices on the Motif put those
unprocessed sounds through the equalizers and effects on the Motif in order to
make the voices that you hear. The Motif will never sound 100% like a DX7
rhodes, but I don't think that lots of people grasp how much it is possible to
change the way that the presets sound. Hopefully, more of you will be inspired
and driven enough to dig into the voice settings once the editors come out.
OK. Enough writing for now. Got to get back to real work.
Bryan
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From: moaccess-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:moaccess-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of D!J!X!
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 3:36 PM
To: MoAccess@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [MoAccess] Motif ES USB not working
Hey bryan, I honestly think that the electric piano sounds on the es are
lacking, I mean the rhodes and worlitzer sound good, but there's lack of those
galaxy EP and tines and the stuff used in slow ballads. Isn't this dx7 card
suppose to have lots of these? I heard yamaha left those kinds of pianos out
of the motif just so that you could get that card because it's suppose to have
tons of those kind of pianos, is this true? I was gonna get one of these and a
vl board and possibly a xg or the synth modeling 1, but idk with all the
software synths i have don't think i needed. I have lots of xg compatible
midis though...
Regards, D!J!X!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: moaccess-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:moaccess-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Bryan Smart
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 10:16 AM
To: MoAccess@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [MoAccess] Motif ES USB not working
Rod, the cards sell for between $120 and $300, depending on their function.
Most of them are worthless, in my opinion. They were designed for Yamaha synths
in the 90's, and so are technically way behind the times in many ways. Yamaha
made them work on the Motif and Motif ES because they already had a full
product line of these PLG cards, so they could easily add them on as a Motif
feature. The cards have some technical problems, though, and they had to be
left out of the design for the XS so that that workstation could move forward
in other areas.
Having said that, though, there are a few good PLG cards.
The VL board uses physical modeling to immitate wind and some other solo
instruments. While the instruments don't always sound 100% like their real
world version, they are extremely expressive. They are many more times
expressive than what is even possible on the XS. However, you can only play one
of these at a time, so you can't for example, use one of these cards to play a
sax section in a Motif song, for example. It is good for playing live, though.
The DX card emulates a Yamaha DX7. If you're really set on getting a super
authentic DX7 rhodes sound, FM style bass, etc, then this is a good card.
However, it, also, can only play a single part at once.
There is an AN PLG card. This is a modeled analog synthesizer. It produces
much better analog synth sounds than is possible with the motif. However, it
plays only one part, and you can't fully edit the sounds.
Last, I like the VH board, which is a vocal harmonizer. It isn't the best one
that I've ever heard, but it is better than most of the cheap stuff that people
have. It isn't noisy, and it integrates easily with the Motif. It will track
chords in a Motif song, and automatically produce 3 part backing vocals for you
as you sing into the mic. It also has a mode where you can play the actual
notes that you'd like the backing voices to sing. The card is accessible (I
wrote up lots of notes about it in the ES Accessible Reference).
The others aren't so awesome. There are two different piano PLG cards, a
percussion card, a card that works like an XG-compatible synth module, and a
few others. Like I said, I don't like most of them.
Hope this helps.
Bryan
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From: moaccess-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:moaccess-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Rod Alcidonis
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 12:22 AM
To: MoAccess@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [MoAccess] Motif ES USB not working
Bryan:
Thanks a lot man.
I don't know if it worth the investment to purchase these cards -- would you
recommend them?
Which ones, please?
How much are they going for approximately?
Really appreciative of your help.
Take care.
Rod Alcidonis
Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009.
Roger Williams University School of Law
10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003
Bristol, RI 02809
Cell: 718-704-4651
Home: 01-824-8685
Roddj12@xxxxxxxxxxx
----- Original Message -----
From: Bryan Smart
To: MoAccess@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 9:45 PM
Subject: Re: [MoAccess] Motif ES USB not working
Rod, you get more channels for accessing the Motif. You don't get more
channels in general.
For example, if you had the XG plg card a vl card, and an an card
installed, then you'd get 16 channels for the main tone generator, 16 for the
xg card, and 1 each for the plg cards. If you don't use plg cards, though, the
extra ports/channels aren't useful.
Also, you can not use the Motif as a control surface over the basic MIDI
ports with a MIDI interface like the Midisport.
So, using USB on the Motif is a good thing.
Bryan
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: moaccess-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:moaccess-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Rod Alcidonis
Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 7:08 PM
To: MoAccess@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [MoAccess] Motif ES USB not working
Hi, Bryan:
Thanks for the excellent tips. I was not aware of the different functions
for each port.
I was told that the USB connection should have afforded me with more midi
channels as oppose to using my midisport16 channels ; Then that can't be right
if I am only using port 1, though. I can only play on 16 channels on port 1. I
don't use the motif es as a controller yet -- need to learn how to do so
first. So, port 2 I will have to disable it. The only two ports I will need are
1 and 3, port 3 for my drum machine. This still would leave me with the same
amount of channels I had using my midisport, though.
Rod Alcidonis
Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009.
Roger Williams University School of Law
10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003
Bristol, RI 02809
Cell: 718-704-4651
Home: 01-824-8685
Roddj12@xxxxxxxxxxx
----- Original Message -----
From: Bryan Smart
To: MoAccess@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 6:51 PM
Subject: Re: [MoAccess] Motif ES USB not working
Rod, you don't want all ports enabled. This could possibly be your
problem.
Motif port 1 is used for the keyboard, controllers, and for allowing
Sonar to play sounds on the Motif. This is the port that you'd get if you
hooked up the Motif to the computer using a MIDI interface and the basic MIDI
in/out jacks on the back of the Motif.
Port 2 is used by the Motif when its working in control surface mode.
Port 3 allows you to access another MIDI keyboard or module that is
connected to the MIDI in and out jacks on the back of the Motif. So, in
addition to being able to use the Motif as a MIDI device when it is connected
to the computer over either USB or man, you can also use the Motif as a single
port MIDI interface for another device.
On the Motif classic and ES, I think that ports 4, 5, and 6 let you have
direct access to the PLG cards. In this way, it is like each of the PLG cards
are their own separate MIDI module.
In Sonar, you should only enable the ports that you need. For example,
you'd never need input from anything other than ports 1 and 2. If you don't
have PLG cards, and don't chain MIDI devices off of the Motif, then only enable
ports 1 and 2 for output.
Also, you should always use an audio metronome. Using a MIDI metronome is
the old school way of working. It requires that you give up one of your 16 MIDI
channels to serve as the metronome. That isn't a good idea.
Bryan
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From: moaccess-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:moaccess-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Damon Fibraio
Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 5:28 PM
To: MoAccess@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [MoAccess] Motif ES USB not working
Rod, to my knowledge, no. You should be able to just send. On all
channels in a port. Maybe try reinstalling the driver, or do a reset on the
motif?
--
Damon Fibraio
screen names -- aol: dfibraio...msn dfibraio@xxxxxxxxxxxx skype: dfibraio
web sites: personal music site: http://www.keyboardguy.com. band:
http://www.queenoftheryche.com. Internet Radio station: http://www.nhbradio.com
Internet radio show every Wednesday night from 8 to 11 pm eastern
From: moaccess-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:moaccess-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Rod Alcidonis
Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 1:21 PM
To: MoAccess@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [MoAccess] Motif ES USB not working
Damon:
Thanks for the info. I have done all that, though. I am quite shock as to
why only one port is working when I have done the same for all of the other
ports. That's why I hate configuring these things after a fresh install.
May I possibly have to mess with some menus to tell the keyboard to send
on all ports? Anyone know how to do that please if this may be the case?
Rod Alcidonis
Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009.
Roger Williams University School of Law
10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003
Bristol, RI 02809
Cell: 718-704-4651
Home: 01-824-8685
Roddj12@xxxxxxxxxxx
----- Original Message -----
From: Damon Fibraio
To: MoAccess@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 12:56 PM
Subject: Re: [MoAccess] Motif ES USB not working
OK, did you select the motif as in and out? You have to assign the midi
instrument definition to the midi port, too. Also, make sure your midi channels
are correct and put the motif into song or pattern mode.
--
Damon Fibraio
screen names -- aol: dfibraio...msn dfibraio@xxxxxxxxxxxx skype:
dfibraio
web sites: personal music site: http://www.keyboardguy.com. band:
http://www.queenoftheryche.com. Internet Radio station: http://www.nhbradio.com
Internet radio show every Wednesday night from 8 to 11 pm eastern
From: moaccess-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:moaccess-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Rod Alcidonis
Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 12:07 PM
To: MoAccess@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [MoAccess] Motif ES USB not working
Hello guys:
I have downloaded the USB driver for the motif es, installed it, but I
am getting no sound. I have also followed the instructions to activate the USB
on the Motif es, but to no avail.
The Midi activity is being shown on my taskbar.
I have also installed and configured my Instrument definition for the
Motif es.
I noticed that in the midi devices dialog box, there is only one option
to select the motif es8. As for input, it appears that it only goes to motif
1-4. Could it be that I am not receiving input sound? I was under the
assumption that by selecting the motif es only, as the only option given, it
would work for both input and output.
Please help; I desperately want to get this fix!
Thanks.
Rod Alcidonis
Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009.
Roger Williams University School of Law
10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003
Bristol, RI 02809
Cell: 718-704-4651
Home: 01-824-8685
Roddj12@xxxxxxxxxxx
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