Re: [MoAccess] Motif ES USB not working
- From: "Bryan Smart" <bryansmart@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <MoAccess@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 16:48:13 -0400
I don't think that Yamaha left those sounds out of the Motif just so
you'd buy the DX card. You can play the DX card live, but it is a pain
to sequence with it. The PLG cards were always a very sloppy type of add
on to the Motif.
You're right, there aren't too many DX7 rhodes type voices on the ES.
The XS has some very nice ones, but there aren't too many of them.
Honestly, I heard so many of those in the 80's, that if I ever use one
now, the track feels too retro.
Something to keep in mind, though, is that most of the Motif sounds are
meant to be modified. Most of the real instrument voices are very
practical (mega clean guitar, after 1983 rhodes, la piano, etc). These
are basic starting places where you can tweak a bit and make your own
voice. Roland and Kurzweil are bad about making specialty voices that
are too extreme in any direction to be easily modifiable. The Motif
voices are designed to be general purpose voices that can be either used
by themselves, or used as starting points to create other voices. The
XS, for example, has a voice that is pretty much a basic DX7 rhodes with
almost no effects. The sound has several layers to it, and is very
expressive, but isn't mixed like you might remember it in your favorite
hit song. What you're supposed to do is to take this basic voice and
edit it to get the sound that you want. For example, pan the elements
out and put slow stereo chorus on it, and you have a Chicago sounding
keyboard voice. Put deep chorusing and heavy compression on it, and you
sound like a Keith Sweat kind of slow jam voice. When ever I had an idea
for a guitar voice, on the ES, I'd start with the Mega Clean guitar
voice, since it already had all of the layering/expressive programming
setup, but was dry and basic in almost every other way. Then, I'd tweak
effects, change the way the controllers were able to adjust the sound,
and save that as a user voice.
The Motif has good presets. A person that is just concerned with the
composition side of song writing will just be satisfied to dial up a DX
rhodes voice. However, if you're at the stage where you have ideas about
how you want a sound to be different, then you need to get into editing.
Editing doesn't mean starting from absolute scratch. In fact, I avoid
starting from absolute scratch, unless I have no other choice. Starting
from scratch takes a lot of work. Where we are with the Motif is that
just about every aspect of the voice is adjustable. Yamaha starts with
basic recordings of strings being plucked, tines being struck, basic
synthesizer waveforms cycling, and uses the synth engine to shape them
into voices that you play. We aren't living back in the 80's where using
a sampler meant that you were playing a recording of an instrument that
was prerecorded with effects, a static envelope, etc.
Here is an example. When people start wanting to edit voices on a
keyboard, they're pushed to that because they don't like the tone
quality, or they don't like the effects that are used on a voice. For
example, for a rhodes, you might think that the rhodes sound is too full
(like it should be playing solo instead of in an ensemble), or else you
don't like the fact that it is all chorus up like a dyno rhodes, when
you'd rather it be panning back and forth like in an R&B ballad. When
people get to the point that they care about such things, they flip
through the presets, and get annoyed that there are only a few rhodes
sounds that have autopanner, or only a few of them are thin enough to
sit well in a mix. The thing is, what you hear in the Motif, for the
most part, are examples of what you could create, not the full list of
what is possible.
When it comes to the tone of a sound, you could take any of the rhodes
sounds, or any of the DX pianos, for example, and adjust the tone in
many ways. Every voice is processed through a dedicated three band
equalizer. The middle band is even parametric. Even when you're in song
or pattern mode, and are using 16 voices all at once, each of your
voices can still use its equalizer. As a basic example, you can switch
to a preset voice in voice mode, use the knobs to eq it differently, and
then save that as a user voice. It doesn't matter that you only changed
the tone of the voice. That is still a custom voice that you made. It is
how you like the voice to sound. If using the voice's three band eq
isn't enough to get the tone the way that you want, each of the 8
elements (or oscillators) that make up a voice has its own eq. SO, if
you have a voice that is a combination of piano and strings, you can eq
just the piano, and then save the voice. If that isn't enough, each of
the elements also has a filter. Most inexperienced users will just think
of the default kind of low pass filter, the type that dulls the sound as
you close it, but the Motif has many different types of filters that you
can use to shape the tone of the voice.
When it comes to the effects of a sound, the Motif has lots of options.
The ES has a boat load of effects, and the XS has even higher quality
modeled effects. Each voice can use two effects processors at once. A
lot of what goes into making a sound in a pop song is the effects
processing. Most people know about effects like reverb and chorus, but
if you care about the particulars of how a voice sounds, then you should
study how the other effects work, like compression, phasers, flangers,
and the more complex types of reverb (gated, early reflections,
plate/spring reverb types, etc). For example, if you've ever heard a DX7
rhodes sound, from a real DX7, with out effects, you'd know that it is
horrible. It sounds like a cheesy toy. On all of those songs that you
remember from the 80's, the mix engineers would need to figure out
something creative to do with the DX7 to make it sound better. Since its
sound was so thin, chorusing helped the tone sound a lot less like sine
waves, and compression helped reduce the problem of how the softly
played notes were nearly impossible to hear. Every mix engineer, though,
had their own effects units and settings for chorus and compression, and
that is why there is such a wide variety of tones that ended up on pop
and R&B records. In the late 80's and early 90's, when digital sampling
keyboards were starting to get affordable, they'd have programs in them
that made DX7 rhodes type sounds, but those programs used recordings of
a DX7 that were already processed up with effects to have that chorused
sound that we'd all heard from the radio. That sucked, because that one
tone was the only tone that you could get from the keyboard. If you
wanted a different type of tone on those keyboards, you need to switch
patches, buy some sample upgrades (if the keyboard even supported it),
or buy another keyboard. The Motif isn't like that. The Motif has
samples of an unprocessed DX7 rhodes in it. The preset voices on the
Motif put those unprocessed sounds through the equalizers and effects on
the Motif in order to make the voices that you hear. The Motif will
never sound 100% like a DX7 rhodes, but I don't think that lots of
people grasp how much it is possible to change the way that the presets
sound. Hopefully, more of you will be inspired and driven enough to dig
into the voice settings once the editors come out.
OK. Enough writing for now. Got to get back to real work.
Bryan
________________________________
From: moaccess-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:moaccess-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of D!J!X!
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 3:36 PM
To: MoAccess@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [MoAccess] Motif ES USB not working
Hey bryan, I honestly think that the electric piano sounds on the es are
lacking, I mean the rhodes and worlitzer sound good, but there's lack of
those galaxy EP and tines and the stuff used in slow ballads. Isn't
this dx7 card suppose to have lots of these? I heard yamaha left those
kinds of pianos out of the motif just so that you could get that card
because it's suppose to have tons of those kind of pianos, is this true?
I was gonna get one of these and a vl board and possibly a xg or the
synth modeling 1, but idk with all the software synths i have don't
think i needed. I have lots of xg compatible midis though...
Regards, D!J!X!
________________________________
From: moaccess-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:moaccess-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Bryan Smart
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 10:16 AM
To: MoAccess@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [MoAccess] Motif ES USB not working
Rod, the cards sell for between $120 and $300, depending on their
function. Most of them are worthless, in my opinion. They were designed
for Yamaha synths in the 90's, and so are technically way behind the
times in many ways. Yamaha made them work on the Motif and Motif ES
because they already had a full product line of these PLG cards, so they
could easily add them on as a Motif feature. The cards have some
technical problems, though, and they had to be left out of the design
for the XS so that that workstation could move forward in other areas.
Having said that, though, there are a few good PLG cards.
The VL board uses physical modeling to immitate wind and some other solo
instruments. While the instruments don't always sound 100% like their
real world version, they are extremely expressive. They are many more
times expressive than what is even possible on the XS. However, you can
only play one of these at a time, so you can't for example, use one of
these cards to play a sax section in a Motif song, for example. It is
good for playing live, though.
The DX card emulates a Yamaha DX7. If you're really set on getting a
super authentic DX7 rhodes sound, FM style bass, etc, then this is a
good card. However, it, also, can only play a single part at once.
There is an AN PLG card. This is a modeled analog synthesizer. It
produces much better analog synth sounds than is possible with the
motif. However, it plays only one part, and you can't fully edit the
sounds.
Last, I like the VH board, which is a vocal harmonizer. It isn't the
best one that I've ever heard, but it is better than most of the cheap
stuff that people have. It isn't noisy, and it integrates easily with
the Motif. It will track chords in a Motif song, and automatically
produce 3 part backing vocals for you as you sing into the mic. It also
has a mode where you can play the actual notes that you'd like the
backing voices to sing. The card is accessible (I wrote up lots of notes
about it in the ES Accessible Reference).
The others aren't so awesome. There are two different piano PLG cards, a
percussion card, a card that works like an XG-compatible synth module,
and a few others. Like I said, I don't like most of them.
Hope this helps.
Bryan
________________________________
From: moaccess-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:moaccess-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Rod Alcidonis
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 12:22 AM
To: MoAccess@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [MoAccess] Motif ES USB not working
Bryan:
Thanks a lot man.
I don't know if it worth the investment to purchase these cards -- would
you recommend them?
Which ones, please?
How much are they going for approximately?
Really appreciative of your help.
Take care.
Rod Alcidonis
Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009.
Roger Williams University School of Law
10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003
Bristol, RI 02809
Cell: 718-704-4651
Home: 01-824-8685
Roddj12@xxxxxxxxxxx
----- Original Message -----
From: Bryan Smart <mailto:bryansmart@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: MoAccess@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 9:45 PM
Subject: Re: [MoAccess] Motif ES USB not working
Rod, you get more channels for accessing the Motif. You don't
get more channels in general.
For example, if you had the XG plg card a vl card, and an an
card installed, then you'd get 16 channels for the main tone generator,
16 for the xg card, and 1 each for the plg cards. If you don't use plg
cards, though, the extra ports/channels aren't useful.
Also, you can not use the Motif as a control surface over the
basic MIDI ports with a MIDI interface like the Midisport.
So, using USB on the Motif is a good thing.
Bryan
________________________________
From: moaccess-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:moaccess-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Rod Alcidonis
Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 7:08 PM
To: MoAccess@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [MoAccess] Motif ES USB not working
Hi, Bryan:
Thanks for the excellent tips. I was not aware of the different
functions for each port.
I was told that the USB connection should have afforded me with
more midi channels as oppose to using my midisport16 channels ; Then
that can't be right if I am only using port 1, though. I can only play
on 16 channels on port 1. I don't use the motif es as a controller yet
-- need to learn how to do so first. So, port 2 I will have to disable
it. The only two ports I will need are 1 and 3, port 3 for my drum
machine. This still would leave me with the same amount of channels I
had using my midisport, though.
Rod Alcidonis
Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009.
Roger Williams University School of Law
10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003
Bristol, RI 02809
Cell: 718-704-4651
Home: 01-824-8685
Roddj12@xxxxxxxxxxx
----- Original Message -----
From: Bryan Smart <mailto:bryansmart@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: MoAccess@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 6:51 PM
Subject: Re: [MoAccess] Motif ES USB not working
Rod, you don't want all ports enabled. This could
possibly be your problem.
Motif port 1 is used for the keyboard, controllers, and
for allowing Sonar to play sounds on the Motif. This is the port that
you'd get if you hooked up the Motif to the computer using a MIDI
interface and the basic MIDI in/out jacks on the back of the Motif.
Port 2 is used by the Motif when its working in control
surface mode.
Port 3 allows you to access another MIDI keyboard or
module that is connected to the MIDI in and out jacks on the back of the
Motif. So, in addition to being able to use the Motif as a MIDI device
when it is connected to the computer over either USB or man, you can
also use the Motif as a single port MIDI interface for another device.
On the Motif classic and ES, I think that ports 4, 5,
and 6 let you have direct access to the PLG cards. In this way, it is
like each of the PLG cards are their own separate MIDI module.
In Sonar, you should only enable the ports that you
need. For example, you'd never need input from anything other than ports
1 and 2. If you don't have PLG cards, and don't chain MIDI devices off
of the Motif, then only enable ports 1 and 2 for output.
Also, you should always use an audio metronome. Using a
MIDI metronome is the old school way of working. It requires that you
give up one of your 16 MIDI channels to serve as the metronome. That
isn't a good idea.
Bryan
________________________________
From: moaccess-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:moaccess-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Damon Fibraio
Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 5:28 PM
To: MoAccess@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [MoAccess] Motif ES USB not working
Rod, to my knowledge, no. You should be able to just
send. On all channels in a port. Maybe try reinstalling the driver, or
do a reset on the motif?
--
Damon Fibraio
screen names -- aol: dfibraio...msn
dfibraio@xxxxxxxxxxxx skype: dfibraio
web sites: personal music site:
http://www.keyboardguy.com. band: http://www.queenoftheryche.com.
Internet Radio station: http://www.nhbradio.com
Internet radio show every Wednesday night from 8 to 11
pm eastern
From: moaccess-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:moaccess-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Rod Alcidonis
Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 1:21 PM
To: MoAccess@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [MoAccess] Motif ES USB not working
Damon:
Thanks for the info. I have done all that, though. I am
quite shock as to why only one port is working when I have done the same
for all of the other ports. That's why I hate configuring these things
after a fresh install.
May I possibly have to mess with some menus to tell the
keyboard to send on all ports? Anyone know how to do that please if this
may be the case?
Rod Alcidonis
Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009.
Roger Williams University School of Law
10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003
Bristol, RI 02809
Cell: 718-704-4651
Home: 01-824-8685
Roddj12@xxxxxxxxxxx
----- Original Message -----
From: Damon Fibraio
<mailto:dfibraio@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: MoAccess@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 12:56 PM
Subject: Re: [MoAccess] Motif ES USB not working
OK, did you select the motif as in and out? You
have to assign the midi instrument definition to the midi port, too.
Also, make sure your midi channels are correct and put the motif into
song or pattern mode.
--
Damon Fibraio
screen names -- aol: dfibraio...msn
dfibraio@xxxxxxxxxxxx skype: dfibraio
web sites: personal music site:
http://www.keyboardguy.com. band: http://www.queenoftheryche.com.
Internet Radio station: http://www.nhbradio.com
Internet radio show every Wednesday night from 8
to 11 pm eastern
From: moaccess-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:moaccess-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Rod Alcidonis
Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 12:07 PM
To: MoAccess@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [MoAccess] Motif ES USB not working
Hello guys:
I have downloaded the USB driver for the motif
es, installed it, but I am getting no sound. I have also followed the
instructions to activate the USB on the Motif es, but to no avail.
The Midi activity is being shown on my taskbar.
I have also installed and configured my
Instrument definition for the Motif es.
I noticed that in the midi devices dialog box,
there is only one option to select the motif es8. As for input, it
appears that it only goes to motif 1-4. Could it be that I am not
receiving input sound? I was under the assumption that by selecting the
motif es only, as the only option given, it would work for both input
and output.
Please help; I desperately want to get this
fix!
Thanks.
Rod Alcidonis
Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009.
Roger Williams University School of Law
10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003
Bristol, RI 02809
Cell: 718-704-4651
Home: 01-824-8685
Roddj12@xxxxxxxxxxx
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