In a message dated 11/13/2005 2:05:42 P.M. Central Standard Time, aamago@xxxxxxxxxxxxx writes: We're trying to win a war militarily that the military has said cannot be won militarily. HI, But here I would disagree with you. I do not think that this war was ever done the way the military would have done it. I think it was done the way civilian analysts (neo-cons but probably others, too--those into the whole technology movement...) thought it could be done. Quite possibly, those in the military industrial complex (who should have known better?) were also involved...but who knows. No--this war could still be done differently and have an outcome which would be positive for the Iraqis. If we choose not to do that, then I do think we need to leave. But, either way would necessitate the neo-con crowd saying 'we were wrong' --and I think they will have an easier time whining about how the anti-war crowd destroyed the American Spirit (or some such rhetoric) than by agreeing with the military guys who were appalled at how/why the decisions have been made...(which is easier to lose face with...You ego-guys might be able to project yourselves into their brains to see which would be the easiest face-saving way out...) Balancing again, Marlena in Missouri