[lit-ideas] Re: The de-islamization of Europe
- From: "Simon Ward" <sedward@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 19:46:23 -0000
I don't know Lawrence [if I stopped there, you'd have a very truthful statement
- but I won't]...I don't know Lawrence, leave you alone for less than a day and
you're already getting into logical difficulties. I'd say it's down to the
position you take. It's wrong.
But that's beside the point. Unsurprisingly, you're unwilling to do the
research (the same research you keep telling me and others to do), the reason
being that you say it'd take too long - even though I put a two day time-scale
on it. Oh well, but even if you won't reciprocate, there's nothing to stop me
playing.
For instance*:
Messages from Lawrence Helm...1,303
Messages from LH containing the word Islam...603
Messages from LH containing the word leftist...214
Messages from LH containing the word Iraq...439
Messages from LH containing the word Iran...365
Messages from LH containing the word Islamist...347
Messages from LH containing the word Islamism...126
Messages from LH containing the word Simon...146
Quite interesting so far. For instance, you seem more concerned about leftists
than you are about Islamism, though clearly you are concerned more with Islam
than anything. And of course, I pride myself on appearing in more messages than
Islamism as well. So, according to this totally unscientific survey, I am more
important to you than Islamism.
More to come obviously...
Simon
*Searched across all messages from Lawrence Helm on Lit-Ideas since 20th
January 2006 (Lawrence's reappearence), saved on my E-mail system (which has
all messages back to 9th March 2005).
----- Original Message -----
From: Lawrence Helm
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 2:56 AM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: The de-islamization of Europe
Well, see here we go again. You make a vague statement and I respond to what
you've said. You accuse me of being obtuse and claim I should know what you
really mean.. I in turn look back at your words and fail to see that I have
been unjust to your words. And then the coup de grace of the Lit-Ideas
Leftists: Why don't you go off on a wild goose chase that is sure to take you
a couple of months. Actually, I used to go off on them years ago thinking
someone might not realize how much work is involve, but I gave it up.
And now you say that unless I go off on this goose chase to find out
something you can't explain or describe that you will call me a hypocrite?
Is this the point where I usually brush you off, because I'm having a strong
desire to do that right now? But I'll resist it today. I'll help you out. f
by chance you are referring to the earlier debate which you may or may not have
been in regarding David Horowitz, Unholy Alliance, Radical Islam and the
American Left, perhaps I can simply repeat my view that Horowitz has done some
good work by drawing attention to such people as Ward Churchill. These people
side with the Islamists and oppose America on issue after issue.
I may also have said that I've read enough of the Islamists to know what
their arguments are. I can recognize when someone is using similar arguments
to theirs. We don't need to go very far afield to find an example. Consider
the following excerpt from one of today's notes: "And the same with Islam. Your
allergy towards Islam won't let you see that their monotheism is far purer than
Christianity. No trinity, no god-as-human, no virgin births. The core ideas of
Islam is what Christianity should be. Islam was developed out of Christian and
Jewish ideas from 700 AD, well after the original Christians had restructured
their ideas under Greek philosophy.
"That's why Islam was so productive in the arts and sciences from 700 to the
1400s. The idea of a purely rationalist universe (where everything is logical
and rational because Allah is
rational) encourages science and mathematics. Thus Islamic mathematicians
invented algebra. Note the "al-" in algebra? As in al-qaeda? Alcohol. Alchemy.
Algorithm. Admiral. Azimuth.
Borax. Cipher. Magazine. And the most brilliant idea of all, upon which
modern science, mathematics, business, and technlogy is built: Zero. Without
zero, no binary mathematics. No computers.
All of these come from the Arabs. Look in the mirror, Lawrence. Recognize the
Islamic influence on the West? Will you finally embrace your Inner Muslim and
welcome him to dinner?"
I've read these arguments before - not word for word but in effect. I've
read them in Islamist writings. I'm not making a fuss now. Here is an example
for you if you want to disagree with me.
Lawrence
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