[lit-ideas] Re: The de-islamization of Europe

[This is the third attempt for this post. This time I've cut the length]

[I sent this reply a couple of hours ago, but it seems to have become lost in 
the ether. I expect the original will turn up a few minutes after this one.]

Lawrence,

Since you appear to have made an effort, let me try again.

Many times over the past year or so you have presumed to have had knowledge of 
how people on the left think, knowledge of their beliefs. Many times, I, and 
others, have picked up on this and challenged you. Each time you brushed it off 
as unimportant, illogical. I've heard you say that such assertions are beyond 
argument. In case you haven't realised it, this approach annoys people.

Now today you complain to Jeorg:

"You make up things and impose them on me as though I must believe what you say 
I believe."

For this reason I called you a hypocrite.

Is that really so difficult to understand?

Simon
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Lawrence Helm 
  To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
  Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 9:23 PM
  Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: The de-islamization of Europe


  No, I really don't, Simon, and you caught me in a serious mood today; so I'll 
elaborate.  I do have a serious problem "debating" people who flout the rules 
of logic, and you admittedly fall in that category.  Something is an argument 
supported by appropriate premises or it is a mere assertion.   Perhaps you 
don't realize it, but I occasionally try to imagine premises that might support 
your assertions, that is, might turn them into legitimate arguments that I 
could therefore respond to, but you grow impatient with such attempts and your 
assertions seem but a short step from insult and so I abandon you as I have 
many times before.  You are not unique.  I have the same sorts of problems with 
Irene & Andreas.  And so you inevitably lose your collective or individual 
tempers and swear and insult much as Joerg recently did.  Perhaps if I knew him 
a little better I wouldn't have been so quick to take offense.  I no longer 
take offense at you, Irene or Andreas; which doesn't mean that I want to 
continue listening to your insults after you give up all pretense of dialogue.  
I'll at least settle for the pretence, usually, as witness the present note.

   

  Lawrence

   


------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] 
On Behalf Of Simon Ward
  Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 11:24 AM
  To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: The de-islamization of Europe

   

  If you've no idea why I say you are hypocritical, then what's the use. But 
just in case, read carefully the sentences I quoted, then try and think back to 
mine and other complaints about what you've been saying about 'leftists'. 

   

  It's really not that difficult.

   

    ----- Original Message ----- 

    From: Lawrence Helm 

    To: Lit-Ideas 

    Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 6:28 PM

    Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: The de-islamization of Europe

     

    Simon,

     

    Or perhaps you mean the bizarre and insulting suggestion that you be 
logical.  I will take responsibility for that.  Mea Culpa!  Mea Maxima Culpa!

     

    Lawrence

     


----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    From: Lawrence Helm [mailto:lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxx] 
    Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 10:23 AM
    To: 'lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
    Subject: RE: [lit-ideas] Re: The de-islamization of Europe

     

    Do you mean the things Sigmund Helmenfreud said to you?  He shall have to 
answer for himself.  I don't speak for him.  Don't get us confused.  

     

    Lawrence

     


----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
[mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Simon Ward
    Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 9:47 AM
    To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
    Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: The de-islamization of Europe

     

    Lawrence: "You say bizarre insulting things that don't relate to anything 
I've said or believe.  You make up things and impose them on me as though I 
must believe what you say I believe."

     

    Hypocrite!

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