Todd, I completely agree with you assessment on the way that system design is being affected by the signal speeds and the die packaging has caused me a lot of pain in some of my recent designs. As a matter of fact the more I think about there are some tool gaps that seriously need to be addressed by Cadence. How can I set a diff pair phase tolerance at 20 mils in allegro when the pair is routed out the die package with the tolerance greater than 20. Zero doesn't even work here! I have experienced similar issues with the rel prop delay. Maybe I am missing something and do need to get some better high speed tutorials because the way I have been solving the problem is with an excel spread sheet and formulas. I believe one thing that would help would be to have a net property with cline length from the die package and of course I would want the data auto loaded from Allegro/APD. But back to the APD papers on Monday am I to get out of this that if I go to the conference on Monday and attend these papers I will be better able to deal with these issues in PCB the design arena with allegro? Put more bluntly will my boss notice an improvement in turnaround time and quality of design by attending? For me and probably many others this is the crux of the biscuit. I believe, will be able to make a better judgment upon reading abstracts, the Tuesday Allegro and capture material is adequate and worth seeing. The Wednesday session revolves around high speed design and yes I would be interested but we don't use Spectra quest and probably will not until core tool issues with high speed design such as the one mentioned above have been resolved. So I am on the east coast why would I go 3000 miles for one day? Carl -----Original Message----- From: Todd Westerhoff (twesterh) [mailto:twesterh@xxxxxxxxx] Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 3:59 PM To: icu-pcb-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [PCB_FORUM] Re: CDNLive! Conference Randy, Thanks for your question. It's difficult for me to comment on all the abstracts we received, as not all of them were accepted for the conference. So - on the subject of SPECCTRA, let simply say that we received very, very few papers, which weren't addressing current design issues (I'm being deliberately vague). Therefore, unfortunately, there isn't a paper on SPECCTRA currently scheduled for the conference. We did solicit material from Cadence R&D and receive a number of good papers on a collection of topics. As for packaging design, we see the increase in signal speeds making this a more important issue. Of course, the packaging folk have thought this all along - and the systems folks are starting to agree. We're seeing more systems designs where board level routing has to accommodate decisions made at the IC/package design level, and where making tradeoffs between the die/package/PCB design is becoming critically important. I would have liked to run two parallel tracks for SPB for more than just Tuesday afternoon as well - we didn't have the papers to support it. As for the Fun Night, I'm with you, but that's Cadence's call. Tuesday used to be "all you can drive" night until Midnight at the Malibu Grand Prix in Redwood City - we could organize a group and cut out after the technology demonstrations ... (I'm not buying, though). Todd . Todd Westerhoff High Speed Design Group Manager Cisco Systems 1414 Massachusetts Ave - Boxboro, MA - 01719 email:twesterh@xxxxxxxxx ph: 978-936-2149 ============================================ "Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest." - Mark Twain -----Original Message----- From: icu-pcb-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:icu-pcb-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Bye, Randy W Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 2:41 PM To: icu-pcb-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [PCB_FORUM] Re: CDNLive! Conference Todd and Mike, As far as I can tell there is no Specctra/Auto-route content at all. In the past there was at least 1/2 day of content for Specctra alone. Did you receive any auto-route/Specctra abstracts? Did you solicit Cadence R&D for Specctra papers? In the past APD/package sessions have been very poorly attended when compared to all other tracks. Based on prior year's statistics, it seems inefficient to offer so much APD/Package material as compared with the available PCB sessions. Providing only one day of content that is directly geared toward PCB designers is significantly less than what has been available other years. I would agree that the SI papers that are being presented on Wednesday are applicable to PCB designers, but in the past there were normally at least 2 full PCB tracks on Tuesday and Wednesday. The CDNLive schedule has only 1 pcb track offered each day. Also, why isn't training being offered on Sunday? Many folks that fly in like to take advantage of Saturday night stay-over price breaks and then attend training sessions on Sunday. Finally, last and definitely least important, what happened to Cadence Fun Night???? It was my understanding that Cadence Fun Night would be reinstated with the CDNLive event. My 2cents..... Randy Bye ----------------------------------------------------------- To subscribe/unsubscribe: Send a message to icu-pcb-forum-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with a subject of subscribe or unsubscribe To view the archives of this list please login at //www.freelists.org. 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