Sent: Sun, 9 Mar 2008 11:53:03 +1000"I deny the crucifixion" Neville..That it happened, or that it was Gods will?Dear Neville,
For the benefit of myself and others on this forum, could you please explain how you came to these strange and latest beliefs? Was it through your own reasoning or has someone else influenced you? What have you based it all on? A book perhaps.Philip.PS You seem to be moulding God in your own image. plm-----Original Message-----
Sent: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 08:59:06 +1000Neville said,So whatever catastrophe occurred, had to be man-made. There was no Noah's Ark. Otherwise our Father would be tarred with the same vile brush that tars the Ezraelites. The father of the Ezraelites is the Devil, as Christ told them plainly, and the works of their father they do. The god of the Old Testament/Torah/Talmud is the Devil.
I am waking up to my bugle call. A little late, perhaps, but better late than never!!
But Neville we all have this human feeling of horror about what appears to be Gods inhuman treatment of humans.
It seems to me Philip, that we each have a light side and a dark side, or good side and bad side if you like. Even 'Jesus' had this (remember when he says "Get behind me," which can not have been addressed to Peter because a) Peter was already behind him and b) Peter was not called Satan). And we each have a battle within ourselves between these two opposite aspects of our very essence.
What I propose is that God is purely light and the Devil is purely dark. This, I believe, is what the light and dark of Genesis Chapter 1 is all about. The perrenial struggle between good and evil.
It therefore follows that God could not, simply could not, do what is attributed to the god of the Old Testament. A good tree does not bring forth bad fruit, by its very definition.Have you not considered the way we commonly accept and understand it? To God the entire history of the world to its consumation is the spark off a blacksmiths anvil, compared to eternity.God is not human. Jesus yes, but He has the same omnipotence and omniprescience as the Father. What is any form of suffering, even if continuous for a lifetime of years compared to eternity. Yet you find intolerable a few hours of violence. Of course its man made, or caused, even if the direct hand of God is involved.
The fact that suffering, cruelty, poverty, injustice, etc., are man-made I agree with entirely; it is the laying of blame at our Father's door that I find unacceptable - making our Father the scapegoat for what men (and women) have done.God knows the whole picture, and you endanger your soul by denying Him that right, by trying to impose or limit Him to human intelligence or reason, even human justice.
I accept that if I am wrong, then I am the one who will answer for it. But, by exactly the same argument, you may have to justify your acceptance of God telling the Jews to go and slaughter countless more of their "enemies." Indeed, why would our Father do this? Has it made the lives of the "chosen ones" any easier? Why do it then? Is there not going to be a "Judgement Day"? So why not judge their "enemies" then?In short, if you understood the metaphysical implications of the crucifixion, the eternal sacrifice, that no ordinary man could sustain, yet was accepted by the man God Jesus, as reparation for the offences of all mankind, then the horror that you and I feel at these skirmishes , Dresden, Palestine, et al are minor. Keep in mind, these people have rejected God. If innocent children die by the sword, and inherit eternal life, I do not think they will complain, but rather thank God for taking out their parents in time. As indeed the Jews.Their suffering is yet to come.
I deny the crucifixion, just as I deny ALL sacrifice. Our Father will have mercy, and not sacrifice.
No one has "paid" for what I have done wrong. I will have to answer for it. And you will have to answer for your errors. Let's lay the blame at our own doors. Our Father is goodness and truth, and will not justify evil-doers (by sacrifice or otherwise).Eternal life is not free. The saints embraced suffering.Philip.
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