[bksvol-discuss] Re: VOTE! Efficient Way To Treat/Include Footnote References
- From: Cindy <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: "bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2012 21:05:12 -0700 (PDT)
o.k. I'll write [end footnote]
Cindy
Join us in celebrating our 10th Anniversary!
TinyURL.com/752cyrs
>________________________________
> From: Roger Loran Bailey <rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx>
>To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Sent: Monday, March 19, 2012 6:53 PM
>Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: VOTE! Efficient Way To Treat/Include Footnote
>References
>
>
>If you are listening to a synthetic voice read the text it is not necessarily
>clear. These speech programs do not announce blank lines. They just keep
>reading. Anyway, I am not sure that the blank line is there before and after
>the page break. I think the reason that we add those blank lines is to protect
>any text or page numbers from being removed by the Bookshare automatic tools.
>Those tools will remove the blank lines. A synthetic voice does not announce
>page breaks either. Those are used for navigation, but as the machine reads
>along you hear only the page number and if you are listening to footnotes
>which are numbered anyway I think that page number right after one or more
>numbered paragraphs might confuse.
>
>On 3/19/2012 9:21 PM, Cindy wrote:
>I vote for not using the phrase end footnote. Actually, since they're at the
>end the page and thus would be followed by a page break and a new page they
>shouldn'tt be necessary. Even is the page number is at the end of the page and
>not at the top, there is a space between the last line of the footnote and the
>page number so it would be clear that the footnote has ended.
>>
>>
>>Cindy
>>Join us in celebrating our 10th Anniversary!
>>
>>TinyURL.com/752cyrs
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>From: Sue Stevens <siss52@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>Sent: Monday, March 19, 2012 4:04 PM
>>>Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: VOTE! Efficient Way To Treat/Include Footnote
>>>References
>>>
>>>Let's get rid of it!!!
>>>
>>>Sue S.
>>>
>>>
>>>-----Original Message----- From: Mayrie ReNae
>>>Sent: Monday, March 19, 2012 5:47 PM
>>>To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: VOTE! Efficient Way To
Treat/Include Footnote References
>>>
>>>Hi Sue,
>>>
>>>That is what I thought. But because others spoke up
loudly for the words
>>>being placed there, that is what was recommended that we
do.
>>>
>>>Should we revisit this and opt not to have the "end
footnote" phrase? I
>>>personally would love to see that happen.
>>>
>>>We do want the best solution for the most people. And
if Bookshare didn't
>>>ever change, we wouldn't be where we are today.
>>>
>>>If the topic of how to handle footnote citations at the
end of the page is
>>>revisited, please limit your comments to either of the
following statements:
>>>
>>>Keep "end footnote"
>>>or "End footnote" is unnecessary since the closing
bracket denotes that.
>>>
>>>We don't want a huge overblown thread, simply a
decision.
>>>
>>>Those of you who are gritting your teeth, please forgive
me. I too don't
>>>like when this kind of thing happens. We've revisited
way too many decisions
>>>in the past. Let's keep this short and quick.
>>>
>>>I'm in the process of reworking the Scanning and
Proofreading Manual to make
>>>it more concise, but still as inclusive as possible, as
well as putting all
>>>of those separate linked pages into one document. If
we're going to change
>>>this, now would be an optimal time to do it.
>>>
>>>I'll watch through the next two or three days and decide
accordingly about
>>>what is thought to be most helpful to the most people,
given the smallness
>>>of our population on this list compared to the entire
Bookshare patronage.
>>>
>>>Thanks for all of your tolerance and patience. We won't
revisit this again
>>>after this Friday.
>>>
>>>Mayrie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Sue Stevens
>>>Sent: Monday, March 19, 2012 2:05 PM
>>>To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Efficient Way To
Treat/Include Footnote
>>>References
>>>
>>>It seems unnecessary, in my opinion, to put the words
footnote, and end
>>>footnote. If the foootnote is in brackets, the readers
will know when they
>>>end and when they begin.
>>>
>>>Sue S.
>>>
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: Mayrie ReNae
>>>Sent: Monday, March 19, 2012 2:38 PM
>>>To: k1000@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>Cc: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Efficient Way To
Treat/Include Footnote
>>>References
>>>
>>>Hi Rik,
>>>
>>>Please, please don't move text from one page to another
unless it is to join
>>>a broken word between two pages to the page on which it
begins. And please
>>>don't move footnote citations from one page to another
when preparing books
>>>for Bookshare. This is an altering of the text that we
don't permit.
>>>
>>>Also, your handling of footnotes by labeling them is
absolutely fine and
>>>preferred. You should, however, please, include that
text in brackets like
>>>this:
>>>
>>>[Footnote: Hop On Pop by Dr. Seuss
>>>End footnote]
>>>
>>>And finally, to give the best results for all readers
please handle
>>>inserting footnote numbers by placing them in brackets
[] and surrounding
>>>those by spaces. Though this is not traditional, it has
been stated as the
>>>way that works best for braille readers of Bookshare
books who don't have
>>>access to superscripted numbers, and sighted readers
using the same books.
>>>
>>>Thanks for all of your intense attention to detail! You
folks with the
>>>patience to tackle this kind of stuff are marvelous! I
have to want to read
>>>a book so badly that I can taste it before I'll
willingly attempt processing
>>>this stuff.
>>>
>>>Rock on everyone! We truly do have a devoted,
conscientious, and just plain
>>>wonderful group of volunteers! We really value all of
you!
>>>
>>>Mayrie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: k1000-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>[mailto:k1000-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of ohio1803@xxxxx
>>>Sent: Monday, March 19, 2012 10:14 AM
>>>To: k1000@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>Subject: Re: Efficient Way To Treat/Include Footnote
References
>>>
>>>Hello Kane,
>>>
>>>Wow, as many as 20 citation notes on each page? That is
pretty dense, isn't
>>>it.
>>>
>>>I sure do not know about setting up K-1000 to do this
stuff automatically.
>>>Maybe. But I don't know. And even if so, it seems that
the likelihood it
>>>might do it wrong is pretty likely, too. Thereby
changing something that
>>>might negatively impact the citation. And if you do
happen to be a Bookshare
>>>member who is reading this type of content and want the
citation, then that
>>>is not good. Not to mention the publisher agreements.
>>>
>>>My 2 cents are maybe just for others to hear and see
what they think.
>>>I'm not exactly sure, officially.
>>>
>>>I have the following ideas to tell you. I have scanned
with footnotes and
>>>citations on the same page.
>>>Two ways.
>>>
>>>In one method, I have moved the citations, to the end of
the chapter or
>>>section in which they are.
>>>But when I do, I try to make good and sure that the
citation number with the
>>>text in the page is clear and that the citation is
correct.
>>>Moving text in this way does allow the reader to move
through the content
>>>and not be interrupted with the narrative so much. This
is also something
>>>you can do with photograph captions. Caution. Anytime
we do this type of
>>>thing, however, great care to make sure you do it
without omission or
>>>errors.
>>>
>>>In the other method, I leave the citations on the same
page, and just make
>>>sure that the citation numbers are as stated in the
manual. If you have a
>>>number right up beside the period, it is clear that
there is a citation for
>>>it. I have not yet put that number in a bracket. But
maybe I should. So I
>>>did not know about that.
>>>
>>>But down below with the citation, I do this, which I do
not think is in the
>>>manual. I put the word "footnote" in that bracket. For
example, [footnote #
>>>1: Alfred's Good Rule of Thumb, 1997. end footnote #
1]. Maybe this is
>>>wrong, and I should never do it again.
>>>
>>>But, for me, at least, this seems to clearly indicate as
I am reading that
>>>this is the citation to the above content.
>>>(The insertion of the word "footnote," I mean.) But it
is probably not
>>>altogether necessary. Maybe a bothersome thing to hear
for another reader .
>>>
>>>Also...
>>>
>>>In either case, for me what I try to do is to make sure
that the page ends
>>>in a complete sentence. Whether that means grabbing the
end of a sentence
>>>from the next page and pasting with the text at the end
of the page, or vice
>>>versa, moving the incomplete sentence to paste with the
rest on the next
>>>page. For me, this is the thing I most like to find in
Bookshare books I
>>>download and read. That I don't have to lose my train
of thought on a
>>>broken up sentence. But of course a lot of times you
just have to be paying
>>>enough attention as you read, and notice you had a
broken sentence and go
>>>find the rest of it.
>>>
>>>Sorry I got sort of long.
>>>But I hope that helps and makes some sense.
>>>
>>>Really, when tackling these types of books, I think you
kind of need to know
>>>they will take this kind of detailed effort. If you do
not want to fool with
>>>all of it, perhaps choosing books without so darned much
citations is a
>>>better fit. Especially when we are putting them in this
permanent collection
>>>for the members. If I do it for my own personal reading
I often skip all
>>>that stuff, too.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Thanks
>>>
>>>Rik James
>>>
>>>*******************************************************
>>>To find out how to unsubscribe, please visit:
>>>http://www.kurzweiledu.com/support_listserv_signup.asp
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: k1000-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>[mailto:k1000-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of ohio1803@xxxxx
>>>Sent: Monday, March 19, 2012 10:14 AM
>>>To: k1000@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>Subject: Re: Efficient Way To Treat/Include Footnote
References
>>>
>>>Hello Kane,
>>>
>>>Wow, as many as 20 citation notes on each page? That is
pretty dense, isn't
>>>it.
>>>
>>>I sure do not know about setting up K-1000 to do this
stuff automatically.
>>>Maybe. But I don't know. And even if so, it seems that
the likelihood it
>>>might do it wrong is pretty likely, too. Thereby
changing something that
>>>might negatively impact the citation. And if you do
happen to be a Bookshare
>>>member who is reading this type of content and want the
citation, then that
>>>is not good. Not to mention the publisher agreements.
>>>
>>>My 2 cents are maybe just for others to hear and see
what they think.
>>>I'm not exactly sure, officially.
>>>
>>>I have the following ideas to tell you. I have scanned
with footnotes and
>>>citations on the same page.
>>>Two ways.
>>>
>>>In one method, I have moved the citations, to the end of
the chapter or
>>>section in which they are.
>>>But when I do, I try to make good and sure that the
citation number with the
>>>text in the page is clear and that the citation is
correct.
>>>Moving text in this way does allow the reader to move
through the content
>>>and not be interrupted with the narrative so much. This
is also something
>>>you can do with photograph captions. Caution. Anytime
we do this type of
>>>thing, however, great care to make sure you do it
without omission or
>>>errors.
>>>
>>>In the other method, I leave the citations on the same
page, and just make
>>>sure that the citation numbers are as stated in the
manual. If you have a
>>>number right up beside the period, it is clear that
there is a citation for
>>>it. I have not yet put that number in a bracket. But
maybe I should. So I
>>>did not know about that.
>>>
>>>But down below with the citation, I do this, which I do
not think is in the
>>>manual. I put the word "footnote" in that bracket. For
example, [footnote #
>>>1: Alfred's Good Rule of Thumb, 1997. end footnote #
1]. Maybe this is
>>>wrong, and I should never do it again.
>>>
>>>But, for me, at least, this seems to clearly indicate as
I am reading that
>>>this is the citation to the above content.
>>>(The insertion of the word "footnote," I mean.) But it
is probably not
>>>altogether necessary. Maybe a bothersome thing to hear
for another reader .
>>>
>>>Also...
>>>
>>>In either case, for me what I try to do is to make sure
that the page ends
>>>in a complete sentence. Whether that means grabbing the
end of a sentence
>>>from the next page and pasting with the text at the end
of the page, or vice
>>>versa, moving the incomplete sentence to paste with the
rest on the next
>>>page. For me, this is the thing I most like to find in
Bookshare books I
>>>download and read. That I don't have to lose my train
of thought on a
>>>broken up sentence. But of course a lot of times you
just have to be paying
>>>enough attention as you read, and notice you had a
broken sentence and go
>>>find the rest of it.
>>>
>>>Sorry I got sort of long.
>>>But I hope that helps and makes some sense.
>>>
>>>Really, when tackling these types of books, I think you
kind of need to know
>>>they will take this kind of detailed effort. If you do
not want to fool with
>>>all of it, perhaps choosing books without so darned much
citations is a
>>>better fit. Especially when we are putting them in this
permanent collection
>>>for the members. If I do it for my own personal reading
I often skip all
>>>that stuff, too.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Thanks
>>>
>>>Rik James
>>>
>>>*******************************************************
>>>To find out how to unsubscribe, please visit:
>>>http://www.kurzweiledu.com/support_listserv_signup.asp
>>>
>>>To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to
>>>bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject
line. To get a list of
>>>available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the
subject line.
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>
>
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