[bksvol-discuss] Re: VOTE! Efficient Way To Treat/Include Footnote References
- From: Cindy <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: "bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 21:52:45 -0700 (PDT)
Unless someone tells me to do differently, that's what I'll do in my next
800-page biography of the early days of Hitler. At the end of the sentence, or
wherever the footnote number is, I shall put space, asterisk, number, space;
e.g., (to use Sandi's example ) *1 continue text
Cindy
Join us in celebrating our 10th Anniversary!
TinyURL.com/752cyrs
>________________________________
> From: Deborah Murray <blinkeeblink@xxxxxxxxx>
>To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2012 7:37 AM
>Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: VOTE! Efficient Way To Treat/Include Footnote
>References
>
>Hi all,
>
>Further to my suggestion the other day regarding using asterisks to mark
>footnotes, it occurs to me that asterisks are already used in print books to
>alert the reader that there is additional information, usually at the bottom
>of the page. It seems appropriate to me for us to use them to mark a
>footnote number. Then we aren't using punctuation in a way that is
>generally not used in print to suit our
purposes.
>
>Just my additional two cents...
>
>Deborah
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Roger Loran Bailey
>Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2012 10:12 AM
>To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: VOTE! Efficient Way To Treat/Include Footnote
>References
>
>I think Deborah's suggestion of an asterisk and then the footnote number
>is pretty unambiguous. Can you think of cases in which that would be
>ambiguous?
>
>On 3/21/2012 12:11 AM, misha wrote:
>> I favor no end footnote is
needed. Some people put [Picture caption:
>> picture caption text end picture caption] but the manual says just the
>> bracket at the end is enough. It should be enough for footnotes also
>> [Footnote: (1) Footnote text]
>>
>> But now I suppose I'll have to go back to putting parens around the
>> footnote numbers. I'm pretty certain there is no way to indicate the
>> footnote numbers in text that is unambiguous in all cases. That's
>> because even for sighted readers there are books where the author puts
>> footnote numbers in parentheses and uses parentheses around numbers in
>> lists or outline heading numbers and worst of all around page
>> numbers. While we use square brackets for our added comments such as
>> [Scanner note] some books use them in the same way I've described for
>> parens above, even *shudder* around page numbers.
Superscripts can
>> appear in chemical and mathematical formulas in addition to footnote
>> numbers.
>>
>> I scan mostly fiction, but I proof mostly non-fiction--and I really
>> don't want to put in all those end footnotes.
>>
>> I was originally going to just put in a quick note with my vote, but
>> it seems I got off on a rant.
>>
>> Misha
>>
>> On 3/19/2012 3:47 PM, Mayrie ReNae wrote:
>>> Hi Sue,
>>>
>>> That is what I thought. But because others spoke up loudly for the words
>>> being placed there, that is what was recommended that we do.
>>>
>>> Should we revisit this and opt not to have the "end footnote" phrase? I
>>> personally would love to see that happen.
>>>
>>> We do want the best solution for the most people. And if Bookshare
>>> didn't
>>> ever change, we wouldn't be where we
are today.
>>>
>>> If the topic of how to handle footnote citations at the end of the
>>> page is
>>> revisited, please limit your comments to either of the following
>>> statements:
>>>
>>> Keep "end footnote"
>>> or "End footnote" is unnecessary since the closing bracket denotes that.
>>>
>>> We don't want a huge overblown thread, simply a decision.
>>>
>>> Those of you who are gritting your teeth, please forgive me. I too
>>> don't
>>> like when this kind of thing happens. We've revisited way too many
>>> decisions
>>> in the past. Let's keep this short and quick.
>>>
>>> I'm in the process of reworking the Scanning and Proofreading Manual
>>> to make
>>> it more concise, but still as inclusive as possible, as well as
>>> putting all
>>> of those separate linked
pages into one document. If we're going to
>>> change
>>> this, now would be an optimal time to do it.
>>>
>>> I'll watch through the next two or three days and decide accordingly
>>> about
>>> what is thought to be most helpful to the most people, given the
>>> smallness
>>> of our population on this list compared to the entire Bookshare
>>> patronage.
>>>
>>> Thanks for all of your tolerance and patience. We won't revisit this
>>> again
>>> after this Friday.
>>>
>>> Mayrie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Sue Stevens
>>> Sent: Monday, March 19, 2012 2:05 PM
>>> To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Efficient Way To Treat/Include Footnote
>>> References
>>>
>>> It seems unnecessary, in my opinion, to put the words footnote, and end
>>> footnote. If the foootnote is in brackets, the readers will know
>>> when they
>>> end and when they begin.
>>>
>>> Sue S.
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Mayrie ReNae
>>> Sent: Monday, March 19, 2012 2:38 PM
>>> To: k1000@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Cc: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Efficient Way To Treat/Include Footnote
>>> References
>>>
>>> Hi Rik,
>>>
>>> Please, please don't move text from one page to another unless it is
>>> to join
>>> a broken word between two pages to the page on which it begins. And
>>> please
>>> don't move footnote citations from one page to another when preparing
>>> books
>>> for Bookshare. This is an altering of the text that we don't permit.
>>>
>>> Also, your handling of footnotes by labeling them is absolutely fine and
>>> preferred. You should, however, please, include that text in
>>> brackets
like
>>> this:
>>>
>>> [Footnote: Hop On Pop by Dr. Seuss
>>> End footnote]
>>>
>>> And finally, to give the best results for all readers please handle
>>> inserting footnote numbers by placing them in brackets [] and
>>> surrounding
>>> those by spaces. Though this is not traditional, it has been stated
>>> as the
>>> way that works best for braille readers of Bookshare books who don't
>>> have
>>> access to superscripted numbers, and sighted readers using the same
>>> books.
>>>
>>> Thanks for all of your intense attention to detail! You folks with the
>>> patience to tackle this kind of stuff are marvelous! I have to want
>>> to read
>>> a book so badly that I can taste it before I'll willingly attempt
>>> processing
>>> this stuff.
>>>
>>> Rock
on everyone! We truly do have a devoted, conscientious, and
>>> just plain
>>> wonderful group of volunteers! We really value all of you!
>>>
>>> Mayrie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: k1000-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> [mailto:k1000-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
>>> ohio1803@xxxxx
>>> Sent: Monday, March 19, 2012 10:14 AM
>>> To: k1000@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: Re: Efficient Way To
Treat/Include Footnote References
>>>
>>> Hello Kane,
>>>
>>> Wow, as many as 20 citation notes on each page? That is pretty dense,
>>> isn't
>>> it.
>>>
>>> I sure do not know about setting up K-1000 to do this stuff
>>> automatically.
>>> Maybe. But I don't know. And even if so, it seems that the likelihood it
>>> might do it wrong is pretty likely, too. Thereby changing something that
>>> might negatively impact the citation. And if you do happen to be a
>>> Bookshare
>>> member who is reading this type of content and want the citation,
>>> then that
>>> is not good. Not to mention the publisher agreements.
>>>
>>> My 2 cents are maybe just for others to hear and see what they think.
>>> I'm not exactly sure, officially.
>>>
>>> I have the following ideas to tell you. I have
scanned with footnotes
>>> and
>>> citations on the same page.
>>> Two ways.
>>>
>>> In one method, I have moved the citations, to the end of the chapter or
>>> section in which they are.
>>> But when I do, I try to make good and sure that the citation number
>>> with the
>>> text in the page is clear and that the citation is correct.
>>> Moving text in this way does allow the reader to move through the
>>> content
>>> and not be interrupted with the narrative so much. This is also
>>> something
>>> you can do with photograph captions. Caution. Anytime we do this
>>> type of
>>> thing, however, great care to make sure you do it without omission or
>>> errors.
>>>
>>> In the other method, I leave the citations on the same page, and just
>>> make
>>> sure that the citation
numbers are as stated in the manual. If you
>>> have a
>>> number right up beside the period, it is clear that there is a
>>> citation for
>>> it. I have not yet put that number in a bracket. But maybe I should.
>>> So I
>>> did not know about that.
>>>
>>> But down below with the citation, I do this, which I do not think is
>>> in the
>>> manual. I put the word "footnote" in that bracket. For example,
>>> [footnote #
>>> 1: Alfred's Good Rule of Thumb, 1997. end footnote # 1]. Maybe this is
>>> wrong, and I should never do it again.
>>>
>>> But, for me, at least, this seems to clearly indicate as I am reading
>>> that
>>> this is the citation to the above content.
>>> (The insertion of the word "footnote," I mean.) But it is probably not
>>> altogether necessary. Maybe a
bothersome thing to hear for another
>>> reader .
>>>
>>> Also...
>>>
>>> In either case, for me what I try to do is to make sure that the page
>>> ends
>>> in a complete sentence. Whether that means grabbing the end of a
>>> sentence
>>> from the next page and pasting with the text at the end of the page,
>>> or vice
>>> versa, moving the incomplete sentence to paste with the rest on the next
>>> page. For me, this is the thing I most like to find in Bookshare books I
>>> download and read. That I don't have to lose my train of thought on a
>>> broken up sentence. But of course a lot of times you just have to be
>>> paying
>>> enough attention as you read, and notice you had a broken sentence
>>> and go
>>> find the rest of it.
>>>
>>> Sorry I got sort of
long.
>>> But I hope that helps and makes some sense.
>>>
>>> Really, when tackling these types of books, I think you kind of need
>>> to know
>>> they will take this kind of detailed effort. If you do not want to
>>> fool with
>>> all of it, perhaps choosing books without so darned much citations is a
>>> better fit. Especially when we are putting them in this permanent
>>> collection
>>> for the members. If I do it for my own personal reading I often skip all
>>> that stuff, too.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Rik James
>>>
>>> *******************************************************
>>> To find out how to unsubscribe, please visit:
>>> http://www.kurzweiledu.com/support_listserv_signup.asp
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: k1000-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> [mailto:k1000-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
>>> ohio1803@xxxxx
>>> Sent: Monday, March 19, 2012 10:14 AM
>>> To: k1000@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: Re: Efficient Way To Treat/Include Footnote References
>>>
>>> Hello Kane,
>>>
>>> Wow, as many as 20 citation notes on each page? That is pretty
dense,
>>> isn't
>>> it.
>>>
>>> I sure do not know about setting up K-1000 to do this stuff
>>> automatically.
>>> Maybe. But I don't know. And even if so, it seems that the likelihood it
>>> might do it wrong is pretty likely, too. Thereby changing something that
>>> might negatively impact the citation. And if you do happen to be a
>>> Bookshare
>>> member who is reading this type of content and want the citation,
>>> then that
>>> is not good. Not to mention the publisher agreements.
>>>
>>> My 2 cents are maybe just for others to hear and see what they think.
>>> I'm not exactly sure, officially.
>>>
>>> I have the following ideas to tell you. I have scanned with footnotes
>>> and
>>> citations on the same page.
>>> Two ways.
>>>
>>> In one method, I have moved the
citations, to the end of the chapter or
>>> section in which they are.
>>> But when I do, I try to make good and sure that the citation number
>>> with the
>>> text in the page is clear and that the citation is correct.
>>> Moving text in this way does allow the reader to move through the
>>> content
>>> and not be interrupted with the narrative so much. This is also
>>> something
>>> you can do with photograph captions. Caution. Anytime we do this
>>> type of
>>> thing, however, great care to make sure you do it without omission or
>>> errors.
>>>
>>> In the other method, I leave the citations on the same page, and just
>>> make
>>> sure that the citation numbers are as stated in the manual. If you
>>> have a
>>> number right up beside the period, it is clear that there is a
>>> citation
for
>>> it. I have not yet put that number in a bracket. But maybe I should.
>>> So I
>>> did not know about that.
>>>
>>> But down below with the citation, I do this, which I do not think is
>>> in the
>>> manual. I put the word "footnote" in that bracket. For example,
>>> [footnote #
>>> 1: Alfred's Good Rule of Thumb, 1997. end footnote # 1]. Maybe this is
>>> wrong, and I should never do it again.
>>>
>>> But, for me, at least, this seems to clearly indicate as I am reading
>>> that
>>> this is the citation to the above content.
>>> (The insertion of the word "footnote," I mean.) But it is probably not
>>> altogether necessary. Maybe a bothersome thing to hear for another
>>> reader .
>>>
>>> Also...
>>>
>>> In either case, for me what I try to do is to make
sure that the page
>>> ends
>>> in a complete sentence. Whether that means grabbing the end of a
>>> sentence
>>> from the next page and pasting with the text at the end of the page,
>>> or vice
>>> versa, moving the incomplete sentence to paste with the rest on the next
>>> page. For me, this is the thing I most like to find in Bookshare books I
>>> download and read. That I don't have to lose my train of thought on a
>>> broken up sentence. But of course a lot of times you just have to be
>>> paying
>>> enough attention as you read, and notice you had a broken sentence
>>> and go
>>> find the rest of it.
>>>
>>> Sorry I got sort of long.
>>> But I hope that helps and makes some sense.
>>>
>>> Really, when tackling these types of books, I think you kind of need
>>> to
know
>>> they will take this kind of detailed effort. If you do not want to
>>> fool with
>>> all of it, perhaps choosing books without so darned much citations is a
>>> better fit. Especially when we are putting them in this permanent
>>> collection
>>> for the members. If I do it for my own personal reading I often skip all
>>> that stuff, too.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Rik James
>>>
>>> *******************************************************
>>> To find out how to unsubscribe, please visit:
>>> http://www.kurzweiledu.com/support_listserv_signup.asp
>>>
>>> To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to
>>> bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. To get a
>>> list of
>>> available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the subject line.
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
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