[bksvol-discuss] Re: VOTE! Efficient Way To Treat/Include Footnote References
- From: Cindy <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: "bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2012 18:44:14 -0700 (PDT)
O.K. Henceforth I will add in brackets end of footnote. Do you need [begin
footnote] also?
re placement of the footnote number in the text. I haven't read or gone to the
manual recently, and perhaps I haven't read it since it was revised, because I
thought I knew what to do with the footnote numbers in the text. I remember
there were options: to use superscript, to raise the number to the line above
the text (which one or two books I proofed recently had done, or to put at the
end of the sentence in (I can't remember if it was parens or brackets. As a
sighted person, I like the way the look superscript and found, when I was
proofing, that having them in the same font but on the line above made it
difficult for me to notice them, and the same was true when they were on the
same line but in parentheses or brackets (though my recent books to proof
didn't have them that way). I can't confirm that the footnote number is
correct, and that none is missing, if I can't see them.
Cindy
Join us in celebrating our 10th Anniversary!
TinyURL.com/752cyrs
>________________________________
> From: Roger Loran Bailey <rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx>
>To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Sent: Monday, March 19, 2012 6:24 PM
>Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: VOTE! Efficient Way To Treat/Include Footnote
>References
>
>I think I can see a reason to add the phrase end of footnotes. Yes, they are
>at the bottom of the page and you should know that when the page ends the
>footnotes end. However, each footnote begins with a number. If you are reading
>the material by way of speech you will hear a number followed by a section of
>text. Then you will hear another number followed by a section of text. Then
>you get to the bottom of the page and what is the first thing you hear on the
>next page? A number. If you are being very vigilant you would notice that the
>number is out of sequence or you may recall that the number of footnotes that
>were on the page was different from the next number you hear. What if the last
>footnote on the page is 32 and the next page is page33? Then you can't even
>rely on the number being out of sequence. You have to remember what the last
>footnoted item on the page was. This can, of course, be done, but if you are
>concentrating on the text rather than
the footnote numbers or formatting it becomes more difficult. I think the
phrase "end of footnote" is at least helpful.
>
>On 3/19/2012 9:10 PM, Evan Reese wrote:
>> I agree with Sue to not include the phrase.
>>
>> Evan
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Stevens" <siss52@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Monday, March 19, 2012 7:04 PM
>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: VOTE! Efficient Way To Treat/Include Footnote
>> References
>>
>>
>>> Let's get rid of it!!!
>>>
>>> Sue S.
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message----- From: Mayrie ReNae
>>> Sent: Monday, March 19, 2012 5:47 PM
>>> To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: VOTE! Efficient Way To Treat/Include Footnote
>>> References
>>>
>>> Hi Sue,
>>>
>>> That is what I thought. But because others spoke up loudly for the words
>>> being placed there, that is what was recommended that we do.
>>>
>>> Should we revisit this and opt not to have the "end footnote" phrase? I
>>> personally would love to see that happen.
>>>
>>> We do want the best solution for the most people. And if Bookshare didn't
>>> ever change, we wouldn't be where we are today.
>>>
>>> If the topic of how to handle footnote citations at the end of the page is
>>> revisited, please limit your comments to either of the following statements:
>>>
>>> Keep "end footnote"
>>> or "End footnote" is unnecessary since the closing bracket denotes that.
>>>
>>> We don't want a huge overblown thread, simply a decision.
>>>
>>> Those of you who are gritting your teeth, please forgive me. I too don't
>>> like when this kind of thing happens. We've revisited way too many decisions
>>> in the past. Let's keep this short and quick.
>>>
>>> I'm in the process of reworking the Scanning and Proofreading Manual to make
>>> it more concise, but still as inclusive as possible, as well as putting all
>>> of those separate linked pages into one document. If we're going to change
>>> this, now would be an optimal time to do it.
>>>
>>> I'll watch through the next two or three days and decide accordingly about
>>> what is thought to be most helpful to the most people, given the smallness
>>> of our population on this list compared to the entire Bookshare patronage.
>>>
>>> Thanks for all of your tolerance and patience. We won't revisit this again
>>> after this Friday.
>>>
>>> Mayrie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Sue Stevens
>>> Sent: Monday, March 19, 2012 2:05 PM
>>> To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Efficient Way To Treat/Include Footnote
>>> References
>>>
>>> It seems unnecessary, in my opinion, to put the words footnote, and end
>>> footnote. If the foootnote is in brackets, the readers will know when they
>>> end and when they begin.
>>>
>>> Sue S.
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Mayrie ReNae
>>> Sent: Monday, March 19, 2012 2:38 PM
>>> To: k1000@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Cc: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Efficient Way To Treat/Include Footnote
>>> References
>>>
>>> Hi Rik,
>>>
>>> Please, please don't move text from one page to another unless it is to join
>>> a broken word between two pages to the page on which it begins. And please
>>> don't move footnote citations from one page to another when preparing books
>>> for Bookshare. This is an altering of the text that we don't permit.
>>>
>>> Also, your handling of footnotes by labeling them is absolutely fine and
>>> preferred. You should, however, please, include that text in brackets like
>>> this:
>>>
>>> [Footnote: Hop On Pop by Dr. Seuss
>>> End footnote]
>>>
>>> And finally, to give the best results for all readers please handle
>>> inserting footnote numbers by placing them in brackets [] and surrounding
>>> those by spaces. Though this is not traditional, it has been stated as the
>>> way that works best for braille readers of Bookshare books who don't have
>>> access to superscripted numbers, and sighted readers using the same books.
>>>
>>> Thanks for all of your intense attention to detail! You folks with the
>>> patience to tackle this kind of stuff are marvelous! I have to want to read
>>> a book so badly that I can taste it before I'll willingly attempt processing
>>> this stuff.
>>>
>>> Rock on everyone! We truly do have a devoted, conscientious, and just plain
>>> wonderful group of volunteers! We really value all of you!
>>>
>>> Mayrie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: k1000-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> [mailto:k1000-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of ohio1803@xxxxx
>>> Sent: Monday, March 19, 2012 10:14 AM
>>> To: k1000@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: Re: Efficient Way To Treat/Include Footnote References
>>>
>>> Hello Kane,
>>>
>>> Wow, as many as 20 citation notes on each page? That is pretty dense, isn't
>>> it.
>>>
>>> I sure do not know about setting up K-1000 to do this stuff automatically.
>>> Maybe. But I don't know. And even if so, it seems that the likelihood it
>>> might do it wrong is pretty likely, too. Thereby changing something that
>>> might negatively impact the citation. And if you do happen to be a Bookshare
>>> member who is reading this type of content and want the citation, then that
>>> is not good. Not to mention the publisher agreements.
>>>
>>> My 2 cents are maybe just for others to hear and see what they think.
>>> I'm not exactly sure, officially.
>>>
>>> I have the following ideas to tell you. I have scanned with footnotes and
>>> citations on the same page.
>>> Two ways.
>>>
>>> In one method, I have moved the citations, to the end of the chapter or
>>> section in which they are.
>>> But when I do, I try to make good and sure that the citation number with the
>>> text in the page is clear and that the citation is correct.
>>> Moving text in this way does allow the reader to move through the content
>>> and not be interrupted with the narrative so much. This is also something
>>> you can do with photograph captions. Caution. Anytime we do this type of
>>> thing, however, great care to make sure you do it without omission or
>>> errors.
>>>
>>> In the other method, I leave the citations on the same page, and just make
>>> sure that the citation numbers are as stated in the manual. If you have a
>>> number right up beside the period, it is clear that there is a citation for
>>> it. I have not yet put that number in a bracket. But maybe I should. So I
>>> did not know about that.
>>>
>>> But down below with the citation, I do this, which I do not think is in the
>>> manual. I put the word "footnote" in that bracket. For example, [footnote #
>>> 1: Alfred's Good Rule of Thumb, 1997. end footnote # 1]. Maybe this is
>>> wrong, and I should never do it again.
>>>
>>> But, for me, at least, this seems to clearly indicate as I am reading that
>>> this is the citation to the above content.
>>> (The insertion of the word "footnote," I mean.) But it is probably not
>>> altogether necessary. Maybe a bothersome thing to hear for another reader .
>>>
>>> Also...
>>>
>>> In either case, for me what I try to do is to make sure that the page ends
>>> in a complete sentence. Whether that means grabbing the end of a sentence
>>> from the next page and pasting with the text at the end of the page, or vice
>>> versa, moving the incomplete sentence to paste with the rest on the next
>>> page. For me, this is the thing I most like to find in Bookshare books I
>>> download and read. That I don't have to lose my train of thought on a
>>> broken up sentence. But of course a lot of times you just have to be paying
>>> enough attention as you read, and notice you had a broken sentence and go
>>> find the rest of it.
>>>
>>> Sorry I got sort of long.
>>> But I hope that helps and makes some sense.
>>>
>>> Really, when tackling these types of books, I think you kind of need to know
>>> they will take this kind of detailed effort. If you do not want to fool with
>>> all of it, perhaps choosing books without so darned much citations is a
>>> better fit. Especially when we are putting them in this permanent collection
>>> for the members. If I do it for my own personal reading I often skip all
>>> that stuff, too.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Rik James
>>>
>>> *******************************************************
>>> To find out how to unsubscribe, please visit:
>>> http://www.kurzweiledu.com/support_listserv_signup.asp
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: k1000-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> [mailto:k1000-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of ohio1803@xxxxx
>>> Sent: Monday, March 19, 2012 10:14 AM
>>> To: k1000@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: Re: Efficient Way To Treat/Include Footnote References
>>>
>>> Hello Kane,
>>>
>>> Wow, as many as 20 citation notes on each page? That is pretty dense, isn't
>>> it.
>>>
>>> I sure do not know about setting up K-1000 to do this stuff automatically.
>>> Maybe. But I don't know. And even if so, it seems that the likelihood it
>>> might do it wrong is pretty likely, too. Thereby changing something that
>>> might negatively impact the citation. And if you do happen to be a Bookshare
>>> member who is reading this type of content and want the citation, then that
>>> is not good. Not to mention the publisher agreements.
>>>
>>> My 2 cents are maybe just for others to hear and see what they think.
>>> I'm not exactly sure, officially.
>>>
>>> I have the following ideas to tell you. I have scanned with footnotes and
>>> citations on the same page.
>>> Two ways.
>>>
>>> In one method, I have moved the citations, to the end of the chapter or
>>> section in which they are.
>>> But when I do, I try to make good and sure that the citation number with the
>>> text in the page is clear and that the citation is correct.
>>> Moving text in this way does allow the reader to move through the content
>>> and not be interrupted with the narrative so much. This is also something
>>> you can do with photograph captions. Caution. Anytime we do this type of
>>> thing, however, great care to make sure you do it without omission or
>>> errors.
>>>
>>> In the other method, I leave the citations on the same page, and just make
>>> sure that the citation numbers are as stated in the manual. If you have a
>>> number right up beside the period, it is clear that there is a citation for
>>> it. I have not yet put that number in a bracket. But maybe I should. So I
>>> did not know about that.
>>>
>>> But down below with the citation, I do this, which I do not think is in the
>>> manual. I put the word "footnote" in that bracket. For example, [footnote #
>>> 1: Alfred's Good Rule of Thumb, 1997. end footnote # 1]. Maybe this is
>>> wrong, and I should never do it again.
>>>
>>> But, for me, at least, this seems to clearly indicate as I am reading that
>>> this is the citation to the above content.
>>> (The insertion of the word "footnote," I mean.) But it is probably not
>>> altogether necessary. Maybe a bothersome thing to hear for another reader .
>>>
>>> Also...
>>>
>>> In either case, for me what I try to do is to make sure that the page ends
>>> in a complete sentence. Whether that means grabbing the end of a sentence
>>> from the next page and pasting with the text at the end of the page, or vice
>>> versa, moving the incomplete sentence to paste with the rest on the next
>>> page. For me, this is the thing I most like to find in Bookshare books I
>>> download and read. That I don't have to lose my train of thought on a
>>> broken up sentence. But of course a lot of times you just have to be paying
>>> enough attention as you read, and notice you had a broken sentence and go
>>> find the rest of it.
>>>
>>> Sorry I got sort of long.
>>> But I hope that helps and makes some sense.
>>>
>>> Really, when tackling these types of books, I think you kind of need to know
>>> they will take this kind of detailed effort. If you do not want to fool with
>>> all of it, perhaps choosing books without so darned much citations is a
>>> better fit. Especially when we are putting them in this permanent collection
>>> for the members. If I do it for my own personal reading I often skip all
>>> that stuff, too.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Rik James
>>>
>>> *******************************************************
>>> To find out how to unsubscribe, please visit:
>>> http://www.kurzweiledu.com/support_listserv_signup.asp
>>>
>>> To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to
>>> bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
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>>> available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the subject line.
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
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>
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