As a clicker trainer, I find it very frustrating and a bit discouraging for list members to be suggesting corrections or any kind of forced-based training as a solution to a training problem. There are many guide dog and or training lists where discussions of leash corrections are appropriate. I don't think that a clicker list would be that type of environment. Rox and the Kitchen Bitches Bristol, Gracy, Mill'E "Everything on the earth has a purpose, every disease an herb to cure it, and every person a mission. This is the Indian theory of existence." ---Mourning Dove [Christine Quintasket] (1888-1936) Salish Pawpower@xxxxxxx windows messenger: Brisomania@xxxxxxxxxxx AIM: brissysgirl