[THIN] Re: Novell Integration
- From: "Stansel, Paul" <Paul.Stansel@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: "'thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'" <thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 15:09:38 -0400
Are you essentially giving them a desktop with NAL and launching the apps
through that? We provide individual published apps for the majority of our
users, and have to have some apps seperated on their own servers simply
because of their load. It would certainly make my life better to do it this
way of course :). Do you use seperate roaming profiles, or just a single
profile whether they are in-house or remote?
-Paul
> ----------
> From: Mobeen Azhar[SMTP:moby@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> Reply To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2003 2:36 PM
> To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [THIN] Re: Novell Integration
>
> Production is ZfD 3.2 with sp1. We have a pilot for Zfd 4.
>
> ZfD has many components to it (DLU, App. mgmt., inventory, etc). Which
> component are you having problems with?
>
> --Moby
>
> Stansel, Paul wrote:
>
> > Which version of Zen are you running?
> >
> > -Paul
> >
> >
> >>----------
> >>From: Mobeen Azhar[SMTP:moby@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> >>Reply To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2003 2:06 PM
> >>To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>Subject: [THIN] Re: Novell Integration
> >>
> >>We are using Novell eDirectory, ZfD (ZenWorks for Desktops) in a very
> >>large
> >>terminal server + Citrix MetaFrame environement without any major
> issues.
> >>The
> >>product works great, and Novell's ZenWorks has been a big help in
> getting
> >>applications, especially ones that have a large and complex user piece,
> >>easily
> >>and quickly distributed to Windows NT and 2000 terminal servers. The
> >>terminal
> >>servers are divided between some that are in NT domains and some that in
> >>AD. No
> >>issues with either side as far as any software from Novell is concerned.
> >>
> >>So far we have not implemented any type of password synchronization
> >>between
> >>Novell's eDirectory and Microsoft's AD, although my tests in a lab
> setting
> >>have
> >>been successfull in delivering what Novell "says on paper". We do
> >>synchronize
> >>credentials between Novell's eDirectory and NT domains using Novell's
> >>Account
> >>Management product.
> >>
> >>The nice thing we have found with ZfD is that the application effort
> >>expended
> >>for our desktops (10,000+) does not have to be repeated for integrating
> >>the same
> >>applications on our Citrix/Terminal servers. We can use the same ZfD
> >>application object on both desktops and terminal servers with very minor
>
> >>modifications.
> >>
> >>--Moby
> >>
> >>PS: Regarding the comment "Novell has decided NetWare is dead" by Ron
> >>Oglesby,
> >> I am not sure if Ron works for Novell to know that. Either way, I am
> >>sure you
> >>are not developing applications on NetWare. Services traditionally
> >>associated
> >>with NetWare have been available on non-NetWare platforms for quite some
> >>time.
> >>One really uses products such eDirectory, ZenWorks, etc. One really
> does
> >>not do
> >>much with NetWare itself. While people might argue whether NetWare
> >>development
> >>is going to continue or not (the vendor, Novell, says it will continue),
> >>these
> >>other applications have been ported to non-NetWare operating systems.
> One
> >>of
> >>the coolest things I like about ZfD is that it can be run in a totally
> >>non-NetWare environemnt - pure 100% Windows.
> >>
> >>
> >>Matt Kosht wrote:
> >>
> >>>I pulled the trigger on Zen/Novell route myself this past weekend.
> >>>Still chasing down problems (printing mostly). Zen on paper looks
> >>>great in practice very buggy/problematic. Also had some apps that had
> to
> >>
> >>>map drive letters to Windows servers that's fun w/o any Windows
> >>
> >>credentials.
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Microsoft has a product called Metadirectory service that can
> >>>supposedly sync the two directories AD and eDirectory.
> >>>I am thinking that might be the best option to solve this dilemma.
> >>>
> >>>I am just wishing I could have pulled the plug on Novell altogether and
>
> >>>went pure AD but as John Belushi would say "Buuuttt Nooooo!".
> >>>
> >>> >>> craig@xxxxxxxxxxxx 9/9/2003 12:25:01 AM >>>
> >>>BTW, I decided to go the AD/Novell route without the Zenworks piece.
> >>>It's going
> >>>to be a terrible pain, though, over the next few days as everyone has
> to
> >>
> >>>sync
> >>>their Novell password with their new Windows password. That's only
> 1500
> >>>students I get to deal with in a two day span.
> >>>
> >>>What's even better about this setup is almost every app either has some
>
> >>>video,
> >>>audio or COM port mapping that goes along with it. Woooot!
> >>>
> >>>Quoting craig@xxxxxxxxxxxx:
> >>>
> >>> > How did I know that you were going to respond?
> >>> >
> >>> > I might take a look at both solutions, then, this weekend. I need
> to
> >>
> >>>get
> >>> > moving on this and I'm afraid that the Windows route is going to be
> a
> >>
> >>>bit too
> >>> >
> >>> > burdensome. At this point in time, the school has no plans to move
> >>
> >>from
> >>
> >>> > NetWare any time soon. Actually, their servers have been rock solid
>
> >>>and have
> >>> >
> >>> > had no problems since their inception (knock on wood).
> >>> >
> >>> > I know NetWare enough to do whatever I need in NWAdmin. Outside of
> >>>that,
> >>> > though, I have to rely on others. We do have two guys though, that
> >>
> >>know
> >>
> >>> > Novell
> >>> > stuff inside and out. So, I'm not too worried about the support.
> >>> >
> >>> > My biggest concern is not that one of these routes wont work - I
> know
> >>
> >>>that
> >>> > they
> >>> > will. My concern is about simplicity. Their "administrator" doesnt
> >>
> >>know
> >>
> >>> > much
> >>> > in the way of network administration and thankfully she knows as
> >>>much. What
> >>> > I
> >>> > want is to be able to leave this project and know that Im not going
> >>>to get a
> >>> >
> >>> > call every 4 hours on how to do such and such. By adding in the
> >>
> >>Windows
> >>
> >>> > component, I know that things will get a bit more complex than they
> >>
> >>would
> >>
> >>> > have
> >>> > with the ZENWorks route.
> >>> >
> >>> > Anyway, thanks for the input. Ill take a look at the DLU/Zenworks
> >>>deal a bit
> >>> >
> >>> > more today.
> >>> >
> >>> > Quoting Ron Oglesby <roglesby@xxxxxxxxxxxx>:
> >>> >
> >>> > > Craig, Long time no see, or hear.....
> >>> > > Anyway, the Netware piece works but is not in use as much as the
> >>>windows
> >>> > > stuff obviously. So when something breaks or doesn't work it is
> >>
> >>hard to
> >>
> >>> > > find help (or even good support) on it.
> >>> > >
> >>> > > If you don't know novell doing this is problematic. I have a real
> >>
> >>good
> >>
> >>> > > novel guy on my team so it doesn't scrare me. But if I didn't I
> >>
> >>would
> >>
> >>> > > recommend Windows every time.
> >>> > >
> >>> > > I guess the question is that if you HAVE to implement this and no
> >>
> >>one
> >>
> >>> > > else you still have to do what is best for the customer. If they
> >>
> >>don't
> >>
> >>> > > want windows use netware just be prepared to LEARN a lot.
> >>> > >
> >>> > > BTW the roaming profile is assigned as a User attribute just like
> >>
> >>NT/2K
> >>
> >>> > > and DLU handles creating the local user and setting up profiles
> >>
> >>etc....
> >>
> >>> > >
> >>> > > PS> Novell has decided netware is dead. No more development for
> >>
> >>that
> >>
> >>> > > network OS. Instead all of their development if for Linux. Why
> stay
> >>
> >>>with
> >>> > > a dead product.
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>> > > Ron Oglesby
> >>> > > Senior Technical Architect
> >>> > >
> >>> > > RapidApp
> >>> > > Office 312.372.7188
> >>> > > Mobile 815.325.7618
> >>> > > email roglesby@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>> > > -----Original Message-----
> >>> > > From: Craig M. Luchtefeld [mailto:craig@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
> >>> > > Sent: Friday, September 05, 2003 7:56 AM
> >>> > > To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>> > > Subject: [THIN] Novell Integration
> >>> > >
> >>> > > Does anyone have any thoughts about which Novell integration route
> >>
> >>is
> >>
> >>> > > better
> >>> > > -- the ZENWorks/Dynamic Local User route or the simultaneous
> >>
> >>Windows
> >>
> >>> > > 2000
> >>> > > domain route with dual accounts?
> >>> > >
> >>> > > I've got a school I'm working with, approximately 1500 students
> >>>with the
> >>> > > environment holding anywhere from 150-200 concurrent sessions.
> >>
> >>We're
> >>
> >>> > > still
> >>> > > in the 'testing' phase, so we can still go either route for
> >>
> >>deployment.
> >>
> >>> > > My
> >>> > > problem with the Windows 2000/Novell route is that they're going
> to
> >>
> >>>have
> >>> > > to
> >>> > > create two accounts for every student, we're going to have to
> >>>sync/reset
> >>> > > all
> >>> > > their passwords, and they're going to have one more point of
> >>>failure (if
> >>> > > the
> >>> > > DC goes down).
> >>> > >
> >>> > > Honestly, I need to read up a bit more on how the ZENWorks deal
> >>
> >>works,
> >>
> >>> > > but
> >>> > > if its creating a dynamic local user, my thought is how are
> roaming
> >>> > > profiles
> >>> > > going to work?
> >>> > >
> >>> > > Anyway, has anyone had the opportunity to take a look at both of
> >>
> >>these
> >>
> >>> > > pieces and examine the advantages/disadvantages to both? From the
> >>> > > Advanced
> >>> > > Guide for FR3, I saw the integration steps for them both, but if I
> >>> > > remember
> >>> > > correctly, it didn't state advantages/disadvantages to either.
> >>> > >
> >>> > > Thanks in advance,
> >>> > >
> >>> > > Craig
> >>> > >
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> >>
> >>--
> >>--Moby
> >>
> >>They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
> >>safety
> >>deserve neither liberty nor safety. -- Benjamin Franklin
> >>
> >>First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a
> >>Jew.
> >>Then they came for the Communists and I did not speak out because I was
> >>not a
> >>Communist.
> >>Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I
> >>was not
> >>a trade unionist.
> >>Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me. --
> >>Pastor
> >>Martin Niemöller
> >>
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> >>
> >
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>
> --
> --Moby
>
> They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
> safety
> deserve neither liberty nor safety. -- Benjamin Franklin
>
> First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a
> Jew.
> Then they came for the Communists and I did not speak out because I was
> not a
> Communist.
> Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I
> was not
> a trade unionist.
> Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me. --
> Pastor
> Martin Niemöller
>
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