[SI-LIST] Re: IBIS-AMI Vendor Support Help
- From: "Ken Willis" <kwillis@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: "'Todd Westerhoff'" <twesterh@xxxxxxxxxx>, "'Muranyi, Arpad'" <Arpad_Muranyi@xxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 10:18:42 -0500
Hi Todd,
On #1, it makes sense to incorporate S-parameters into IO models, especially
since some major IP suppliers have this data today. I think the item that
brings some uncertainty is why this would be pushed into the algorithmic
(AMI) portion of the model, especially if new syntax/API has to be invented
and supported. The intent of AMI was to capture the adaptive filtering
behavior of these advanced Serdes devices, which you couldn't really model
well in a circuit model. If the S-parameters are largely parasitic data, it
seems more straightforward to include them in the analog circuit part of the
model.
I understand that there is no standard "IBIS" syntax for S-params right now,
but I would agree with Arpad that Touchstone is widely supported. Maybe we
should be looking at [External Model] > Touchstone or something like that.
But we can continue the discussion in the IBIS forum.
Thanks,
Ken Willis
Sigrity, Inc.
860-871-7070
kwillis@xxxxxxxxxxx
-----Original Message-----
From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Todd Westerhoff
Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 9:29 AM
To: Muranyi, Arpad
Cc: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: IBIS-AMI Vendor Support Help
Arpad,
Two points worthy of note:
1) I think there's a balance between adapting models to fit the current
standard and extending the standard to improve the way we utilize vendor
data. One of the goals we had for IBIS-AMI was to utilize model data
vendors already have, S-parameter characterizations of on-die behavior
being the obvious case. This should legitimately be considered part of
the device model and IBIS-AMI should accommodate it as such. Telling
people to include on-die S-parameters as part of the channel may comply
with the current spec, but I don't think that's the way semiconductor
vendors or users want to manage that data ... it just creates more
opportunity for error.
2) A clear and unambiguous definition of on-die S-parameter syntax was
presented at the Feb 2009 IBIS Summit, for exactly the reasons you
mentioned.
Thanks,
Todd.
Todd Westerhoff
VP, Software Products
SiSoft
6 Clock Tower Place, Suite 250
Maynard, MA 01754
(978) 461-0449 x24
twesterh@xxxxxxxxxx
www.sisoft.com
Muranyi, Arpad wrote:
> Sanjeev,
>
> I would recommend the following:
>
> Zero out the package related stuff in the .ibs file to
> basically turn package modeling off in it.
>
> Provide an S-parameter package file separately the same
> way as the channel's S-parameter file would be distributed.
> This could be documented in the .ibs file behind comments.
> The customer will use whatever method to include this in
> their favorite EDA tool.
>
> If there is a need for on-die interconnect parasitic modeling,
> it could be done the same way as the package model described
> in the previous paragraph. The two might even be combined into
> a single S-parameter file if that is more convenient or practical.
>
> I would NOT provide a speculated IBIS syntax or any tool
> specific syntax in the .ibs file for anything, unless a
> clear and unambiguous description is given, so that another
> EDA vendor could reproduce the same results with their products.
>
> For the rest of the buffer description I would encourage
> everyone to use existing IBIS constructs as far as possible.
> And again, if certain features cannot be described that way,
> I would encourage everyone to provide a detailed description
> for what needs to be modeled so that anyone could make their
> own model implementations using their favorite EDA tools
> based on that description.
>
> Thanks for asking the question.
>
> Arpad
> ================================================================
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sanjeev_gupta@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:sanjeev_gupta@xxxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 5:29 PM
> To: Muranyi, Arpad; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Cc: sanjeev_gupta@xxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: RE: [SI-LIST] Re: IBIS-AMI Vendor Support Help
>
> Hello Arpad,
>
> What will be your advice to companies who are ramping up on AMI? Should
> they include some non-AMI syntax for package modeling assuming that IBIS
> AMI standard will support these keywords in near future or provide these
> package model as a separate Touchstone file which can be integrated
> within simulation environment?
>
> Best regards
> Sanjeev
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