Well, I do not find my post redundant, contradoctory, or, on its own merits, confusing. Nor do I suspect that you are extremely dense. I do think you are purposely misunderstanding. I believe I said that you will learn to see the difference if you attend the shows...not just one but several. To my mind, if you are of average intelligence and can't understand the differences after putting in the time, then perhaps you should give up trying to understand them. The people who do "get it" didn't do it by reading books or posts; they learned by seeing with their own eyes. Like sailing...or riding a horse, neither of which you can learn without doing, no matter how much you read. If you have shown Collies and Corgis and don't know that there are dogs in those breeds that never go to the all breeds, just as there are those who never go to specialties, then, with no insult intended, your experience in those breeds is extremely limited. I suspect that you do not want to accept the simple explanation that I gave elsewhere in my post, which, by the way, was a serious attempt to help you...in case you were so confused that you didn't get that far, however, I will repeat it: The belief is (and it isn't far from wrong) that the average all-rounder judge won't appreciate the fine points of the breed. I suggest you ask your friends in Collies, Shelties, and Pembroke Welsh Corgis how long they have been seriously involved in showing and how many of their National Specialty winners during their time in the breed are campaigned at the all breed shows. If they have been around for any length of time and are truthful, they are likely in the first two breeds to say None, and in Corgis, the correct answer is "most but not all." I have a dear friend who breeds Chihuahuas and Cresteds...I asked her about a particular Chihuahua not too long ago and her reply was not "he's a specialty dog" but "those people only show at specialties." So perhaps you are looking for Bible quotes...you aren't going to get those in the dog world. Working ability is not of interest to all show dog people, either, and should not be part of the criteria, since it is not part of it for everyone. Peggy Schipstar@xxxxxxx wrote: > I will admit to finding these statements somewhat redundant, > contradictory and in itself, confusing. Maybe I'm just extremely dense? > > ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2005. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://www.showgsd.org ============================================================================