[project1dev] Re: Project1 - SVN Update 270
- From: Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 19:05:24 -0700
Katie, we are EXTREMELY lucky to have you here (:
thank you for putting up with us haha
On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 6:52 PM, katie cook <ktmcook@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Yeah, we artist sometimes let things get the best of us and our egos get
> in the way.
>
> For me its just about making people happy. Whatever it takes to accomplish
> that is what I will do. =0
>
> --- On *Fri, 6/26/09, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>* wrote:
>
>
> From: Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: [project1dev] Re: Project1 - SVN Update 270
> To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 6:36 PM
>
> Design always seems to be pretty haeted from what i've seen workin at the
> companies ive been at.
>
> the reason why is because in programming you can benchmark things, see what
> runs faster and uses less memory.
>
> In art, i think you can quantify things a little bit, but way less than
> programming.
>
> in design - there is no way to quantify most things other than just having
> people play it but its really hard to isolate single ideas for play
> testing. So, if people let it get personal it gets bad lol.
>
> Luckily everybody here is pretty cool and hopefully nobody will take
> anything personally (:
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 6:28 PM, katie cook
> <ktmcook@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=ktmcook@xxxxxxxxx>
> > wrote:
>
>> drama anyone? =0
>>
>> --- On *Fri, 6/26/09, eric drewes
>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >* wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >
>> Subject: [project1dev] Re: Project1 - SVN Update 270
>> To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 5:07 AM
>>
>> basically i view this entire argument as such:
>> i show you a puzzle piece for a massive puzzle i am working on and you
>> tell me that the shape of the edges aren't aethestically pleasing to you and
>> they need to be changed. :P
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 7:49 AM, eric drewes
>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> I understand your point - i just disagree with it :P It will be used, it
>>> will be fun, nothing will be half done or incomplete.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 7:00 AM, Chris Riccobono
>>> <crysalim@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=crysalim@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> You really seem to be missing my point though Eric. If we focus more
>>>> on things that will get used, we can make those more fun, instead of
>>>> adding things that either are half done or incomplete.
>>>>
>>>> Basically, the way you think that it should be in just in case 1
>>>> person uses it, I think it shouldn't be because only one person will
>>>> use it.
>>>>
>>>> But lets just put it aside for now, I don't want to ruffle any more
>>>> feathers here :P
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 6:46 AM, eric
>>>> drewes<figarus@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=figarus@xxxxxxxxx>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> > basically it seems to me that everyone's argument is "but I want to be
>>>> able
>>>> > to jump far!" because we're just looking only at the jumping issue.
>>>> > Overall, the game will be balanced to make heavy armor desirable for
>>>> some
>>>> > circumstances, and some people may be willing to sacrifice being able
>>>> to
>>>> > jump stuff to get that extra protection.
>>>> >
>>>> > I really think you guys aren't looking at the overall picture. this
>>>> isn't a
>>>> > jumping game. being able to jump far is not a requirement for beating
>>>> the
>>>> > game. heavy armor will have advantages in other systems to offset not
>>>> being
>>>> > able to jump as far. just because YOU currently do not think you
>>>> would use
>>>> > heavy armor doesn't mean we should eliminate it for the people who may
>>>> be
>>>> > interested in using it all the time or in certain circumstances.
>>>> >
>>>> > On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 9:42 AM, eric drewes
>>>> > <figarus@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=figarus@xxxxxxxxx>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> well heavy armor isn't just for the hero and no one is forced to use
>>>> it
>>>> >> for the main character, i don't want to just eliminate it because we
>>>> wouldnt
>>>> >> want to use it. I think its best to give the players the option to
>>>> decide
>>>> >> how they want to play without us dictating how we think their
>>>> character
>>>> >> should be - the design is meant to lead people into making their own
>>>> >> decisions about what they want to do.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 2:40 AM, Chris Riccobono
>>>> >> <crysalim@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=crysalim@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> >
>>>> >> wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> After reading the rest of the thread:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Nick's point about taking off heavy armor is a very good one. Sure,
>>>> >>> we can leave that in and let people do that, but we could also leave
>>>> >>> that out and dedicate more time to other stuff that players will end
>>>> >>> up using.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> If we can figure out what players will like to use and what they
>>>> >>> won't, we're going to have that much better of a game!
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 11:13 AM, eric
>>>> >>> drewes<figarus@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=figarus@xxxxxxxxx>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >>> > cool, i think it is a good compromise :) also, i understand your
>>>> >>> > concern w/
>>>> >>> > wanting an additional tier but maybe we can play with the jump
>>>> >>> > distances for
>>>> >>> > traps and solve it that way.
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> > in retrospect and upon further review i think that the super jump
>>>> would
>>>> >>> > be
>>>> >>> > better at least 2x to create a distinct separation from normal
>>>> jumping.
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> > On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 2:01 PM, Kent Petersen
>>>> >>> > <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> >
>>>> >>> > wrote:
>>>> >>> >>
>>>> >>> >> I like Eric's system. it is a hybrid of what everyone wants.
>>>> >>> >>
>>>> >>> >> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 10:37 AM, eric drewes
>>>> >>> >> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> >
>>>> >>> >> wrote:
>>>> >>> >>>
>>>> >>> >>> as do all men (and some women)
>>>> >>> >>>
>>>> >>> >>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 1:33 PM, Nick Klotz <
>>>> roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx <http://mc/compose?to=roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx>>
>>>> >>> >>> wrote:
>>>> >>> >>>>
>>>> >>> >>>> I wish women felt the same about relationships.
>>>> >>> >>>>
>>>> >>> >>>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 12:30 PM, eric drewes <
>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx <http://mc/compose?to=figarus@xxxxxxxxx>>
>>>> >>> >>>> wrote:
>>>> >>> >>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>> i guess a better way to say it is, i am all about value and
>>>> bang
>>>> >>> >>>>> for
>>>> >>> >>>>> the buck. i am for making things complex and intricate - as
>>>> long
>>>> >>> >>>>> as adding
>>>> >>> >>>>> that complexity provides more depth and fun. if its just
>>>> complex
>>>> >>> >>>>> for the
>>>> >>> >>>>> sake of making things more complex, i just dont see the
>>>> point...
>>>> >>> >>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 1:26 PM, Nick Klotz <
>>>> roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx <http://mc/compose?to=roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx>>
>>>> >>> >>>>> wrote:
>>>> >>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>> "we should make it as simple as possible and i am for
>>>> simplicity
>>>> >>> >>>>>> for
>>>> >>> >>>>>> the record"
>>>> >>> >>>>>> You guys have no idea how true this is. You wouldn't believe
>>>> the
>>>> >>> >>>>>> ideas and systems I had to rethink when coming up with a
>>>> basic
>>>> >>> >>>>>> combat
>>>> >>> >>>>>> design.
>>>> >>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 12:21 PM, eric drewes <
>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx <http://mc/compose?to=figarus@xxxxxxxxx>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>> wrote:
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>> no problem :P hehe... yeah if it was an arcade game i would
>>>> be in
>>>> >>> >>>>>>> total agreement that we should make it as simple as possible
>>>> and
>>>> >>> >>>>>>> i am for
>>>> >>> >>>>>>> simplicity for the record - as long as its not at the cost
>>>> of
>>>> >>> >>>>>>> versatility
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 1:15 PM, katie cook <
>>>> ktmcook@xxxxxxxxx <http://mc/compose?to=ktmcook@xxxxxxxxx>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>> wrote:
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> My bad E =P I have had no idea really how far/deep you guys
>>>> were
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> wanting to go (hence me saying I wasn't for sure. I though
>>>> I
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> caught a while
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> back you guys mentioning launch on XBLA and I just got
>>>> arcade in
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> my head.
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> Thanks for the clarification E.
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> With my new understanding of the game =), I am on board
>>>> with all
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> the
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> previously mentioned scenarious on abilities for
>>>> jumping/armor,
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> etc. Not
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> that I wasn't before, I was just slightly concerned about
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> overthinking
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> simplistics.
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> --- On Wed, 6/24/09, eric drewes
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=figarus@xxxxxxxxx>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> From: eric drewes
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> >
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> Subject: [project1dev] Re: Project1 - SVN Update 270
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> To:
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 6:27 AM
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> i want to explicitely thank chris, alan and katie for
>>>> offering
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> the
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> counter points to my original thought, i really think
>>>> having
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> alternate
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> perspectives of things will allow us to fully explore
>>>> elements
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> of game
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> design like this and that it will ultimately deliver a
>>>> better,
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> more
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> intuitive and most importantly more FUN gaming experience.
>>>> I do
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> not mind
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> debating the points as I have done below because frankly,
>>>> if I
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> cannot defend
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> the game design philosophy then the system we're discussing
>>>> is
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> probably
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> broken and i need to work on it some more. besides that,
>>>> it has
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> been
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> my experience in designing the combat with nick that when
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> debating ideas
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> like this it occasionally inspires great new ideas. I
>>>> actually
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> consider
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> this to be a vital part of "pre-testing" so please, I
>>>> encourage
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> you to
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> continue offering your insights and perspectives!
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> To give you a specific example, your idea about armor
>>>> making you
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> slower and jump shorter will generally make players avoid
>>>> doing
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> that
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> in any instance they can. In action based games, skilled
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> players
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> will
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> go towards what is as fast and damaging as possible, and
>>>> will
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> avoid
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> things like that on purpose.
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> - this is by design, we want to encourage people who are
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> exploring
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> to use lighter armor, it makes no sense to go on a journey
>>>> into
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> a mysterious
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> temple that is bound to have traps, puzzles, etc. in full
>>>> plate
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> armor. We
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> want that style of armor to be reserved for people who
>>>> accept
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> the penalty of
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> speed/jumping for the enhanced ability to take hits without
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> getting damage.
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> this is a player choice.
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> Also, having injuries slow you down will make players feel
>>>> like
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> they
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> can't be damaged. For things like this you want to flip
>>>> the
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> tables,
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> and instead create armor that gives players more speed, but
>>>> they
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> take
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> more damage. It might seem like a small thing, but in the
>>>> eyes
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> of a
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> player it can make a huge difference in gameplay.
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> - also by design. We want players to feel like there are
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> concequences to being injured and it should be avoided as
>>>> much
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> as possible.
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> There are penalties for being injured or dying - that is a
>>>> major
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> part of the
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> combat design here. We are trying to break away from the
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> constant
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> healing/ressurection that has been the common thread in
>>>> most
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> rpgs. we're
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> trying to get away from the attrition system. more info on
>>>> this
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> below
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> Basically ask yourself if you would play the game and have
>>>> fun
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> doing
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> the things you imagine.
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> - one of my favorite gaming experiences is america's army,
>>>> and
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> what
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> makes it so great and so immersive is that you are
>>>> constantly in
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> fear of
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> your life so there is actual tension on the battle field,
>>>> its
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> not like tf2
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> where you run out, spam attacks and if you get killed, oh
>>>> well,
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> respawn. I
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> love the idea of players figuring out the best strategies
>>>> to
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> stay alive and
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> learning tactics and skills to do it. yes, it is a
>>>> challenge -
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> but that is
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> what makes it so great! Another game I love, as alan
>>>> pointed
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> out, is
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> gemstone. Gemstone was ruthless with one shot kills,
>>>> getting
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> your leg
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> chopped off and not being able to climb stuff, etc. like
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> there's areas in
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> the game you have to take your armor off and be athletic
>>>> enough
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> to jump in
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> order to make it over there. staying alive is a major part
>>>> of
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> that game and
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> everytime you got hit, you would bleed and feel the effects
>>>> of
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> it. as a
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> player you had to learn to adapt your skills and player
>>>> style to
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> prevent
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> yourself from getting damaged as much as possible. this is
>>>> a
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> key element to
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> the game design we are trying to go with. so to answer
>>>> your
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> question - yes,
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> i think it'd be fun :P
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> Okay guys, this is just my opinion. =) For me when I play
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> arcade-ish
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> style games like I the ones I think (if I understand
>>>> correctly)
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> that we are
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> trying to make, I think Chris has got a really good point.
>>>> I
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> like to take
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> the easiest route possible to get to the next step. Not
>>>> that we
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> should flake
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> on stuff. But we should make sure to not
>>>> scrutinize/overthink
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> things too
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> much if that makes sense.
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> - this is an rpg, not an arcade game! :P the emphasis is
>>>> on
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> exploration, not just going as quickly as you can to get to
>>>> the
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> next level
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> (although you can if you so choose). what makes rpg's (and
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> adventure games)
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> fun for me is finding all the little secrets that are
>>>> hidden all
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> over the
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> world. also, everyone is acting like 5 settings is so
>>>> complex,
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> really the
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> first one is only for special case scenarios and isn't
>>>> meant to
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> be used
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> during actual gameplay, and the 5th one is really only to
>>>> serve
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> as a special
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> thing for use like spells, flying, etc. there are only 3
>>>> main
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> ones, a weak
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> jump for heavily armored players, a normal one for most
>>>> people,
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> and a long
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> jump for people who choose to sacrifice armor for speed and
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> manueverability
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> I'd bet this jump level thing would more or less be
>>>> invisible /
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> automatic to the player. Like when you were heavier you
>>>> just
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> dont jump as
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> high or as far. The player might not know there are 5
>>>> levels of
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> jumping
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> ability, they might just realize "hey when i take off my
>>>> armor i
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> can make
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> that jump to that cave i couldnt get to before" (and of
>>>> course
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> maybe an NPC
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> tips you off to that fact). Or there are boots that have
>>>> the
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> description of
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> "wear to be able to jump higher"
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> -right, this is all an under the hood system. its funny
>>>> because
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> when i write stories, etc. i try to keep things as close to
>>>> the
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> vest because
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> i like the reader to be surprised, i like keeping a mystery
>>>> and
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> something
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> for them to discover for themselves. this is also true in
>>>> my
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> game design
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> philosophy, give players a ton of neat stuff they can find
>>>> out
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> for
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> themselves if they want to... the irony is, as a team we're
>>>> ALL
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> under the
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> hood so i have to express all the hidden things to you guys
>>>> so
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> it can get
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> made/discussed, but then everyone is like "oh that is
>>>> overly
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> complicated
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> there's no reason for that!" without putting themselves in
>>>> the
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> shoes of the
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> player who doesn't even know the system exists and that its
>>>> just
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> there for
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> them to discover if they are curious and interested.
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> 5 different jumps will matter only as much as we design the
>>>> game
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> for
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> them to matter. In Diablo 2, the barb jump skill only let
>>>> you
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> cross
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> certain terrain that wasn't walkable, so having so many
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> different
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> jump
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> lengths was easily solved - just make the pits larger. If
>>>> we
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> can
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> find
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> an easy solution in our game - an equivalent to "just
>>>> making the
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> pits
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> larger" - then we can add as many jumps as we want, and
>>>> even
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> make
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> them
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> scale into flying!
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> I recently learned how to do the shinespark tricks in
>>>> Metroid
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> Redesign, and if we could make our jumps in the game
>>>> require a
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> skill
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> curve somehow, that would reward the player for the ability
>>>> to
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> jump
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> higher... almost like how in 3d Mario games, you have to
>>>> jump
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> right
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> as
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> you hit the ground again, within a certain amount of time,
>>>> so
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> you
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> can
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> do the triple jump.
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> -i actually view it as a really simple system that allows
>>>> for a
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> lot
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> of neat versatility in game design and player strategy...
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> something that
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> allows for more skill based movement if people are
>>>> interested
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> because i know
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> some crazy people (like nick) enjoy finding crazy
>>>> challenges and
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> trying to
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> exploit gameplay tools to get into areas, etc. i think
>>>> that is
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> fun and
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> great and should be part of our design. i picked 5 as the
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> number so there
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> would be differences between teh playing styles while
>>>> keeping
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> things we
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> needed to design/test for to the minimum.
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> okay so lets get down to brass tacks here (how much for the
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> monkey?)
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> (3 adunai points to whoever gets the reference)
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> IMO we have 2 options:
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> a) 2 jump system - 1 for armor too heavy for you
>>>> (basically,
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> non-jumping) and 1 for normal.
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> pros: easier to design for, easier to test for, no need to
>>>> think
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> about armor choices for the player beyond "is it too
>>>> heavy?"
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> cons: less versatile, no differences between wearing
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> light/heavy/medium armor for adventurers, no hidden areas
>>>> only
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> accessible by
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> people who invest and discover ways to jump farther.
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> b) 5 jump system - as illustrated above
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> pros: more for the player to discover, another "tool" in
>>>> our
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> tool
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> box, gives extra strengths/weaknesses when picking armor
>>>> and
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> character style
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> cons: harder to design/test, may baffle some characters.
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> now obviously i am biased towards B (the 5 jump system) so
>>>> my
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> pitch
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> for it is, it'll be simpler in practice for the
>>>> player/designer
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> than it may
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> seem to you right now, it's important for game balance
>>>> between
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> heavy/light
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> armor, players can really just make sure they are at level
>>>> 3
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> (normal) and
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> they will be able to get through the entire game without
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> worrying about the
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> difference in jump so i think there is zero bafflement
>>>> chance,
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> and it gives
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> us another neat tool for desiging exploration and hidden
>>>> stuff
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> in the game.
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> I am definitely open-minded and can be convinced to go with
>>>> A) -
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> so
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> lets open it up to the forum and take a little poll and if
>>>> you
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> want to post
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> comments/thoughts/ideas - then it'll give us more
>>>> information to
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> make a good
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> and intelligent decision.
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> :)
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 7:55 AM, eric drewes <
>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx <http://mc/compose?to=figarus@xxxxxxxxx>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> i didnt have time to read everythign yet but basically
>>>> here is
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> my
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> take...
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> level 1 is basically a "your character is broken level"
>>>> and
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> doesnt
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> need to be designed for, its basically a penalty thing we
>>>> can
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> use. it is
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> the extreme
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> level 2 is needed to differentiate heavy armor from light
>>>> armor
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> level 3 is what we will design for, it is "normal"
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> level 4 is to sepparate quick characters with ultra light
>>>> armor
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> from people wearing normal armor
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> level 5 is a special case scenario type of thing
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> we're basically just designing the game for level 3, with
>>>> maybe
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> a
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> small amount of special case scenario areas for level 4/5
>>>> (like
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> under 2-3
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> per chapter)
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> i really don't think that it is overly complicated at all
>>>> and
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> this
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> will be a SUBTLE thing, i.e. again, most of the things
>>>> like
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> this are only
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> designed for people who want the bonus, but dont have to
>>>> have
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> it
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 3:01 AM, Alan Wolfe
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> >
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> yeah actually thats a good point, i remember playin zelda
>>>> and
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> you
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> see objects which are obviously repeated (ie black rocks
>>>> in
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> link to the
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> past, or the docks in zelda 1 etc) and knowing "there is
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> something up with
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> those" but you dont know til you have the item. I forgot
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> about that, that
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> was kinda fun gameplay :P
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 10:47 PM, Chris Riccobono
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> <crysalim@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=crysalim@xxxxxxxxx>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> Yeah, that's part of the fun of Zelda and Metroid style
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> games...
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> getting those items that make you able to do things you
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> didn't predict were
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> possible, so then the player wonders what cool thing is
>>>> gonna
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> come out next
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> :)
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> That's a pretty cool idea for introducing game
>>>> mechanics..
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> player doesn't know about them at all in the game until
>>>> they
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> actually get
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> the item for it.
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 10:40 PM, Alan Wolfe
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> yeah totally i agree with you.
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> we were talkin about this before, we were saying having
>>>> lots
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> optional things to discover in a game makes it seem
>>>> bigger
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> because we don't
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> advertise what the "edges" are.
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> so yeah totally, if we advertise there are 5 jump
>>>> levels it
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> ruins the magic, but if the player discovers "wtf i
>>>> jump
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> higher now?" they
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> might try to see just how high they can jump. Maybe
>>>> they
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> get to level 4 and
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> never cap out at level 5, as far as they know the sky
>>>> is the
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> limit even
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> though they are almost at the cieling hehe.
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 10:36 PM, Chris Riccobono
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> <crysalim@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=crysalim@xxxxxxxxx>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, about the player not knowing there will be 5
>>>> jump
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> levels,
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> would trigger the "yay I discovered something"
>>>> emotion.
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> It's
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> really
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> fun to learn how to do something to reach new places,
>>>> you
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> know?
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 10:35 PM, Chris
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Riccobono<crysalim@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=crysalim@xxxxxxxxx>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > I do believe simplicity brings about the most fun
>>>> when
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > done
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > correctly!
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > I think part of the fun of a game is learning how
>>>> to use
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > the
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > system,
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > too, so when you can learn it very easy at first,
>>>> you are
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > open to
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > learning new mechanics as things go on.
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 10:27 PM, Alan
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > Wolfe<alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> You deffinately have a good point. Our game isn't
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> arcadey
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> per se but it is
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> a game where you can go deeper if you want but
>>>> don't
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> have
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> to.
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> Like there will be lots to explore but it's all
>>>> optional
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> (Eric correct me if
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> im wrong lol).
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> I'd bet this jump level thing would more or less be
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> invisible / automatic to
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> the player. Like when you were heavier you just
>>>> dont
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> jump
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> as high or as
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> far. The player might not know there are 5 levels
>>>> of
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> jumping ability, they
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> might just realize "hey when i take off my armor i
>>>> can
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> make
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> that jump to
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> that cave i couldnt get to before" (and of course
>>>> maybe
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> an
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> NPC tips you off
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> to that fact). Or there are boots that have the
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> description
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> of "wear to be
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> able to jump higher"
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> But yeah there is deffinate wisdom to keeping it
>>>> simple,
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> especially keeping
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> the end result the player sees simple.
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> Someone should be able to pick up the game and be
>>>> able
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> to
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> play without
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> having to read some huge manual :P
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> the old saying "easy to learn difficult to master"
>>>> yadda
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> yadda
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 10:13 PM, katie cook
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> <ktmcook@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=ktmcook@xxxxxxxxx>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> Okay guys, this is just my opinion. =) For me when
>>>> I
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> play
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> arcade-ish style
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> games like I the ones I think (if I understand
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> correctly)
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> that we are trying
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> to make, I think Chris has got a really good
>>>> point. I
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> like
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> to take the
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> easiest route possible to get to the next step.
>>>> Not
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> that we
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> should flake on
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> stuff. But we should make sure to not
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> scrutinize/overthink
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> things too much
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> if that makes sense.
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> I like the opportunity to get a little bit deeper
>>>> with
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> a
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> game if I choose
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> to at the time, but appreciate when I don't have
>>>> to.
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> Usually arcades games
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> tend to be shorter in hours played. When I play a
>>>> short
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> game, I don't wanna
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> have to invest a lot of time and deal with
>>>> frivilous
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> features. The easier
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> the game the funner it is for me (for arcade/short
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> games. I
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> hope this makes
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> sense.
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> --- On Tue, 6/23/09, Chris Riccobono
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> <crysalim@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=crysalim@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> >
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> wrote:
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> From: Chris Riccobono
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> <crysalim@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=crysalim@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> >
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> Subject: [project1dev] Re: Project1 - SVN Update
>>>> 270
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> To:
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> Date: Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 9:46 PM
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> 5 different jump levels is going to complicate
>>>> things a
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> bit
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> more than
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> we want. Try to keep in mind that the ideal is to
>>>> make
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> the
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> game more
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> fun. Ask yourself, will 5 different jumps enhance
>>>> the
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> game
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> enough to
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> warrant the amount of coding, designing, and bug
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> testing
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> they will
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> require?
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> To reiterate what I tried to stress early on, we
>>>> want
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> the
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> game to be
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> as fun as possible, as simply as possible. Having
>>>> a
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> complex game is
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> great if it enhances the experience, but if it
>>>> doesn't,
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> it
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> becomes a
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> hinderance - just another game, in other words.
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> To give you a specific example, your idea about
>>>> armor
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> making you
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> slower and jump shorter will generally make
>>>> players
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> avoid
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> doing that
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> in any instance they can. In action based games,
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> skilled
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> players will
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> go towards what is as fast and damaging as
>>>> possible,
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> and
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> will avoid
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> things like that on purpose.
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> Also, having injuries slow you down will make
>>>> players
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> feel
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> like they
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> can't be damaged. For things like this you want
>>>> to
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> flip
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> the tables,
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> and instead create armor that gives players more
>>>> speed,
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> but
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> they take
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> more damage. It might seem like a small thing,
>>>> but in
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> the
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> eyes of a
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> player it can make a huge difference in gameplay.
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> Basically ask yourself if you would play the game
>>>> and
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> have
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> fun doing
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> the things you imagine.
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 6:14 PM, Alan
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> Wolfe<alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > you know the kind of cool thing about this too
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > we could actually make situations that you
>>>> couldn't
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > escape from, and
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > have
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > things like pits that when you fall into them
>>>> you die
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > instantly and
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > return
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > to the void.
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > those are really mean (literally!) features but
>>>> if we
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > use
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > them sparingly
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > or
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > in some kind of "i told you not to look in the
>>>> box"
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > situations that
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > could be
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > actually pretty funny.
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > im not sure if you are down with it, but it
>>>> would
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > bring a
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > feeling of
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > mortality :P
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > ps i'll add the previous ideas to the wiki once
>>>> i get
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > home if no one
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > else
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > has by then. I dont mind but just can't right
>>>> now :P
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:44 PM, eric drewes
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> > <figarus@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=figarus@xxxxxxxxx>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> yes - harsh but like i said, its an emergency
>>>> only
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> option to be as a
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> last
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> resort... i think any other way of doing it
>>>> will
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> allow
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> too many holes
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> for
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> exploits (such as exp or item farming, etc)
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 8:43 PM, Alan Wolfe
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> >
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> wrote:
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>> so would you lose all exp, gold and items
>>>> gained
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>> then?
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:41 PM, eric drewes
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> >
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>> wrote:
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> yeah i think that is what we';ll do, you can
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> recall to
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> the void at
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> any
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> time but it effectively just restores a saved
>>>> game
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> so
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> you gain no
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> benefit to
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> it. We'll make this sort of a last ditch
>>>> option,
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> so
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> we'll try to
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> design it
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> so people never have to use it under normal
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> circumstances
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 8:39 PM, Alan Wolfe
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> >
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>> wrote:
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> no, im just here to poke holes in your ideas
>>>> <g>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> jk but no im not sure... other than perhaps
>>>> the
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> player can return to
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> the void at any time, and the cost is that
>>>> you've
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> lost all the time
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> you've
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> taken to progress to where you are (ie you
>>>> have
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> to
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> walk back)
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:38 PM, eric drewes
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> >
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>> wrote:
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>> wait i take that back, i'll have to think
>>>> of a
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>> real
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>> solution. any
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>> ideas?
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 8:35 PM, Alan Wolfe
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> >
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>> wrote:
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> ok
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> is recall always going to be available?
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:35 PM, eric
>>>> drewes
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> >
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> wrote:
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> recall
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 8:33 PM, Alan
>>>> Wolfe
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> >
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> ok sounds good. the lax attitude and
>>>> not
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> needing
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> perfection
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> will
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> make it alot easier to test and build.
>>>> We'll
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> just have to make
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> sure and
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> keep that in mind when designing things.
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> actually i think we will probably still
>>>> have
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> to
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> do a lot of
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> testing
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> with the various jumps to make sure
>>>> people
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> can't
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> get somewhere
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> they arent
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> meant to be that they cant get out of -
>>>> ie i
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> can
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> enter this
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> level 3 jump
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> area but i can't escape.
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> what's your thoughts on that situation?
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:29 PM, eric
>>>> drewes
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> >
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> well 2 things...
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> 1 - i am comfortable with the testing,
>>>> i
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> think
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> it'll add a lot
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> to
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> the game - what do you guys think?
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> 2 - alan i would really say we'd only
>>>> need
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> to
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> test for 2 things
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> -
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> the ability for level 2 to get past
>>>> areas
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> that
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> have no
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> non-jumping route
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> through and to make sure tier 5 people
>>>> can't
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> exploit anything
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> we don't want
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> them too... i would say if a tier 3
>>>> person
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> can
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> find a way to
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> get over
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> something designed as a secret for
>>>> level 4
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> people, then that is
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> ok w/ me,
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> and likewise with level 4 getting to
>>>> level 5
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> areas. if they
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> can find a way
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> to overcome the handicap, i dont want
>>>> to
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> stop
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> them :)
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 8:25 PM, Alan
>>>> Wolfe
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> >
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> and of course another option is we
>>>> just
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> design
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> it where fine
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> tuned details like that aren't
>>>> important
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> like if you can jump it instead of
>>>> having
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> get a rope and
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> climb
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> up, who cares!
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> but shrug just wanted to point out
>>>> this
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> aspect
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> of the
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> solution!
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:17 PM, Alan
>>>> Wolfe
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I like the idea. It deffinately
>>>> makes
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> thigns
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> exploration
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> based since we could put places that
>>>> you
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> can't
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> get to while
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> starting out
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> This isn't a deal breaker but i want
>>>> to
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> point
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> out this will
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> increase testing and designing time:
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> * all maps will have to be played
>>>> with the
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> highest jump level
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> make sure they cant exploit anything
>>>> they
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> shouldn't be able
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> * all maps will have to played with
>>>> the
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> lowest
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> jump level to
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> make sure the minimum we want
>>>> passable is
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> passable
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> * for maps which have a specific jump
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> requirement areas (ie
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> level 3 lets you get to this area)
>>>> we'll
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> to play with
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> that level as
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> well as the next level down to make
>>>> sure
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> one below can't
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> get up too.
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:11 PM, eric
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> drewes
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> >
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> what do you guys think of that
>>>> scale?
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> way we dont have
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> guess when we design and we have a
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> baseline
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> standard
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 7:58 PM,
>>>> eric
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> drewes
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=figarus@xxxxxxxxx>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and a voice spoke from the
>>>> mountain
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tops,
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "and let it be
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> spoken, there shall be 5 different
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tiers of
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jumping
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ability, one for hardly
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any jump at all, the next for
>>>> between
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> current jump and
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the previous
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> levels not-really-a-jump, the
>>>> third is
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is there now,
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the fourth for a
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jump equal to 1.5x as high/far as
>>>> the
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3rd
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and a fifth that
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is triple the
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> normal jump - this will be
>>>> reserved for
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> special facet,
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> item boosts or a max
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 100 quickness bonus.
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> basically it is like this:
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> level 1) barely a jump at all,
>>>> this
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will be
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for incredibly
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fat characters (w/ the fat facet)
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with super heavy
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> armor that they
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aren't strong enough to wear,
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> incredibly
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> injured people,
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people with snake
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> torsos, etc :-P
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> level 2) this is what people
>>>> wearing
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> plate/heavy chain
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> armor,
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or have relatively strong long
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> injuries,
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc. etc. will
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> level 3) most characters will have
>>>> this
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jump, traps, etc.
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should be designed with this as
>>>> the
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> minimum
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - though
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> basically we want it to
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be a challenge for level 3 people.
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> areas can be
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> designed so it's
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> inaccessible without level 4
>>>> though,
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nothing vital to
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> passing the map -
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also, traps/jump areas that aren't
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> accessible except
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> through jumping should
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> use level 2 as a minimum.
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> level 4) super athletic character
>>>> with
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> light or no armor
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have this, they can reach special
>>>> areas
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other 3 levels
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can't, jump
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> puzzles should be easier for level
>>>> 4
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> level 5) these characters are
>>>> magically
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> imbued or have
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> super
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> humanly agility, maybe they have
>>>> little
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wings, etc. by
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> passable traps, areas
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that can only be reached via long
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distance
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> travel, etc
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> these characters have
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a big advantage on all jumping
>>>> matters.
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 7:29 PM,
>>>> Kent
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Petersen
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Man, that sounds awful. At least
>>>> we
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> learned these
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lessons and now know how to
>>>> prevent
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 4:26 PM,
>>>> Alan
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wolfe
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> btw line rider had the same
>>>> issues
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tee
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hee
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In line rider, people
>>>> were exploiting
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simple physics
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulation to do tricks like
>>>> gravity
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wells and nose
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> grinds and other stuff.
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when we made the commercial
>>>> version
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the game we had
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make sure all the tricks were
>>>> still
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possible and we
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> brought in tech dawg to
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> play it and make sure everything
>>>> was
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> still kosher.
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the parts that sucked - whenever
>>>> we
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> optomized something
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the game it would break all
>>>> existing
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> test
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maps we had
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> made so we had to wait
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> til the very end of the game to
>>>> make
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> puzzle maps.
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also, since the DS, Wii and PC
>>>> all
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> different
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> floating
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> point math chips in them (and ds
>>>> had
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> diff
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> code), maps
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wouldn't work the same
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on all the different platforms
>>>> so we
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> had
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to keep sharing
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to be on the same
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> platform it was created on.
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 3:50 PM,
>>>> Alan
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wolfe
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its ok man ::shakes you:: the
>>>> wars
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over,
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nixon is outa
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> office now
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 3:48
>>>> PM,
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kent
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Petersen
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Kent is having megaman
>>>> flashbacks*
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 3:47
>>>> PM,
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alan
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wolfe
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> indeed! I'm going to
>>>> re-iterate
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you said Kent
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so people understand the
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> importance
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we should figure out how
>>>> high /
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> far we
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want the
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> player
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to be able to jump and how
>>>> strong
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gravity should be
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> muey importante~!
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> once we decide we can't
>>>> change
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> without
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> having to
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rebuild
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and rebalance any existing
>>>> physics
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dependant maps (ie
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> skill jumps, gaps that
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the player should or should
>>>> not be
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> able to jump over
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc) which is a total
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pain and could really be
>>>> really
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> really
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> destructive to
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> our game having to
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rebuild and rebalance a whole
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bunch of
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> crap later.
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, lookin at you Eric, we
>>>> should
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> talk
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> finalizing.
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is there anything
>>>> specifically you
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sure want the
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> player to be able to do? IE
>>>> jump
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> across a certain
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distance, jump over a
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> certain hight object etc
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 3:31
>>>> PM,
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kent
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Petersen
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What did you want to do for
>>>> the
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> first
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trap? I
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> imagined
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that there would be 5 or so
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> different
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> looking tiles.
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Then there would be one
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> correct kind of tile (not
>>>> the
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> diamond). Then the
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> player would have to jump
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about through the tiles to
>>>> the
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> correct ones. I
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figured it would work
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> similarly to the ones that
>>>> were
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kenttest.
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What's your thoughts on
>>>> that?
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Before you get to into
>>>> designing
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> temple I would
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> highly suggest that we nail
>>>> down
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> player control and
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jumping physics. Let me
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> warn you from experience, if
>>>> we
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> change how any of
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that works your temple
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will become obsolete.
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 3:25
>>>> PM,
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kent
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Petersen
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Been really busy today and
>>>> will
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> probably be busy
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> next couple days. I would
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> suggest
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> leaving the trap
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> areas open for now. If
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you are willing to push on
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyway
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and have specific
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> questions, send em my
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way and I will be happy to
>>>> help
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when I get a
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chance.
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at
>>>> 2:23 PM,
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alan Wolfe
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Man that's awesome
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at
>>>> 2:16
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PM,
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apache User
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <
>>>> dhapache@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<http://mc/compose?to=dhapache@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> >
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> User:rorac
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Message: Expanded a
>>>> little on
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> templemap, added
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> template code as per
>>>> Kent's
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> advisement.
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Need a sign (next room is
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> diamond
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> path). Kent, I
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will need your help to
>>>> help
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> build
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that part and
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> begin putting traps in
>>>> the
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hallway (first right =
>>>> first
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trap
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> area).
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <Files Changed>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> U
>>>> Scripts/Maps/templemap.lua
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> Scripts/Maps/templemap_geometry.lua
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> ;>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>>
>>>> >>> >>>>
>>>> >>> >>>
>>>> >>> >>
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
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