[project1dev] Re: Project1 - SVN Update 270
- From: eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 20:38:06 -0400
wait i take that back, i'll have to think of a real solution. any ideas?
On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 8:35 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> ok
>
> is recall always going to be available?
> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:35 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> recall
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 8:33 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>> ok sounds good. the lax attitude and not needing perfection will make it
>>> alot easier to test and build. We'll just have to make sure and keep that
>>> in mind when designing things.
>>>
>>> actually i think we will probably still have to do a lot of testing with
>>> the various jumps to make sure people can't get somewhere they arent meant
>>> to be that they cant get out of - ie i can enter this level 3 jump area but
>>> i can't escape.
>>>
>>> what's your thoughts on that situation?
>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:29 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>
>>>> well 2 things...
>>>> 1 - i am comfortable with the testing, i think it'll add a lot to the
>>>> game - what do you guys think?
>>>>
>>>> 2 - alan i would really say we'd only need to test for 2 things - the
>>>> ability for level 2 to get past areas that have no non-jumping route
>>>> through
>>>> and to make sure tier 5 people can't exploit anything we don't want them
>>>> too... i would say if a tier 3 person can find a way to get over something
>>>> designed as a secret for level 4 people, then that is ok w/ me, and
>>>> likewise
>>>> with level 4 getting to level 5 areas. if they can find a way to overcome
>>>> the handicap, i dont want to stop them :)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 8:25 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> and of course another option is we just design it where fine tuned
>>>>> details like that aren't important
>>>>>
>>>>> like if you can jump it instead of having to get a rope and climb up,
>>>>> who cares!
>>>>>
>>>>> but shrug just wanted to point out this aspect of the solution!
>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:17 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I like the idea. It deffinately makes thigns more exploration based
>>>>>> since we could put places that you can't get to while starting out
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This isn't a deal breaker but i want to point out this will increase
>>>>>> testing and designing time:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> * all maps will have to be played with the highest jump level to make
>>>>>> sure they cant exploit anything they shouldn't be able to
>>>>>> * all maps will have to played with the lowest jump level to make sure
>>>>>> the minimum we want passable is passable
>>>>>> * for maps which have a specific jump requirement areas (ie level 3
>>>>>> lets you get to this area) we'll have to play with that level as well as
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> next level down to make sure the one below can't get up too.
>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:11 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> what do you guys think of that scale? that way we dont have to guess
>>>>>>> when we design and we have a baseline standard
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 7:58 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> and a voice spoke from the mountain tops, "and let it be spoken,
>>>>>>>>> there shall be 5 different tiers of jumping ability, one for hardly
>>>>>>>>> any jump
>>>>>>>>> at all, the next for between the current jump and the previous levels
>>>>>>>>> not-really-a-jump, the third is what is there now, the fourth for a
>>>>>>>>> jump
>>>>>>>>> equal to 1.5x as high/far as the 3rd and a fifth that is triple the
>>>>>>>>> normal
>>>>>>>>> jump - this will be reserved for special facet, item boosts or a max
>>>>>>>>> 100
>>>>>>>>> quickness bonus.
>>>>>>>>> basically it is like this:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> level 1) barely a jump at all, this will be for incredibly fat
>>>>>>>>> characters (w/ the fat facet) people with super heavy armor that they
>>>>>>>>> aren't
>>>>>>>>> strong enough to wear, incredibly injured people, people with snake
>>>>>>>>> torsos,
>>>>>>>>> etc :-P
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> level 2) this is what people wearing plate/heavy chain armor, or
>>>>>>>>> have relatively strong long injuries, etc. etc. will have
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> level 3) most characters will have this jump, traps, etc. should be
>>>>>>>>> designed with this as the minimum - though basically we want it to be
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> challenge for level 3 people. some areas can be designed so it's
>>>>>>>>> inaccessible without level 4 though, but nothing vital to passing the
>>>>>>>>> map -
>>>>>>>>> also, traps/jump areas that aren't accessible except through jumping
>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>> use level 2 as a minimum.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> level 4) super athletic character with light or no armor will have
>>>>>>>>> this, they can reach special areas the other 3 levels can't, jump
>>>>>>>>> puzzles
>>>>>>>>> should be easier for level 4
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> level 5) these characters are magically imbued or have super
>>>>>>>>> humanly agility, maybe they have little wings, etc. by passable
>>>>>>>>> traps, areas
>>>>>>>>> that can only be reached via long distance travel, etc these
>>>>>>>>> characters have
>>>>>>>>> a big advantage on all jumping matters.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 7:29 PM, Kent Petersen
>>>>>>>>> <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Man, that sounds awful. At least we have learned these lessons and
>>>>>>>>>> now know how to prevent them
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 4:26 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> btw line rider had the same issues tee hee
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> In line rider, people were exploiting a simple physics simulation
>>>>>>>>>>> to do tricks like gravity wells and nose grinds and other stuff.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> when we made the commercial version of the game we had to make
>>>>>>>>>>> sure all the tricks were still possible and we brought in tech dawg
>>>>>>>>>>> to play
>>>>>>>>>>> it and make sure everything was still kosher.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> the parts that sucked - whenever we optomized something in the
>>>>>>>>>>> game it would break all existing test maps we had made so we had to
>>>>>>>>>>> wait til
>>>>>>>>>>> the very end of the game to make the puzzle maps.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> also, since the DS, Wii and PC all have different floating point
>>>>>>>>>>> math chips in them (and ds had diff code), maps wouldn't work the
>>>>>>>>>>> same on
>>>>>>>>>>> all the different platforms so we had to keep sharing to be on the
>>>>>>>>>>> same
>>>>>>>>>>> platform it was created on.
>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 3:50 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> its ok man ::shakes you:: the wars over, nixon is outa office
>>>>>>>>>>>> now
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 3:48 PM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Kent is having megaman flashbacks*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 3:47 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> indeed! I'm going to re-iterate what you said Kent just so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people understand the importance
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we should figure out how high / far we want the player to be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> able to jump and how strong gravity should be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> muey importante~!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> once we decide we can't change without having to rebuild and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rebalance any existing physics dependant maps (ie skill jumps,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gaps that the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> player should or should not be able to jump over etc) which is a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> total pain
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and could really be really really destructive to our game having
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to rebuild
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and rebalance a whole bunch of crap later.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, lookin at you Eric, we should talk about finalizing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is there anything specifically you for sure want the player to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be able to do? IE jump across a certain distance, jump over a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> certain hight
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> object etc
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 3:31 PM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What did you want to do for the first trap? I imagined that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there would be 5 or so different looking tiles. Then there
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would be one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> correct kind of tile (not the diamond). Then the player would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have to jump
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about through the tiles to the correct ones. I figured it would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> similarly to the ones that were on kenttest.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What's your thoughts on that?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Before you get to into designing the temple I would highly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> suggest that we nail down player control and jumping physics.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me warn
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you from experience, if we change how any of that works your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> temple will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> become obsolete.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 3:25 PM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Been really busy today and will probably be busy the next
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> couple days. I would suggest leaving the trap areas open for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> now. If you are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> willing to push on anyway and have specific questions, send em
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my way and I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will be happy to help out when I get a chance.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 2:23 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Man that's awesome
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 2:16 PM, Apache User <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dhapache@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> User:rorac
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Message: Expanded a little on templemap, added template
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> code as per Kent's advisement.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Need a sign (next room is diamond path). Kent, I will need
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your help to help build that part and begin putting traps in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the hallway
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (first right = first trap area).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <Files Changed>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> U Scripts/Maps/templemap.lua
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A Scripts/Maps/templemap_geometry.lua
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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