[project1dev] Re: Project1 - SVN Update 270
- From: Chris Riccobono <crysalim@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 22:42:34 -0700
I really wish I knew you guys back in the mudding days so I could have
brought you over to Clandestine :)
I would have played Gemstone too, if I had people to play with.
That's really what it's all about. But I did have a similar group of
people on Cland that I played with, and learning how to use everything
in the game to the point where people think you're hacking is really
fun and ego boosting haha.
I would have loved to pk with Eric and Nick back in the day. I
actually gathered a somewhat small group of players that came with me
to a couple other Godwars muds (where you kill other players for exp)
and those people still play games with me today.
I am currently playing a mod of Team Fortress 2 that introduced races
and skills. Only two servers run the mod, and it's completely server
side, so there's a tight knit community just like a mud has. It's
really fun, any tf2 players should check it out :)
On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 10:35 PM, Alan Wolfe<alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> gemstone is a really interesting game.
>
> i seriously never understood it's mechanics enough to be good at them.
>
> it was a MUD but it was a pay mud (i know you hate subscription games lol).
>
> basically what was crazy is i would go in, and i would play for like 3
> months lets say, and end up being level 6 and have to fight things my level.
>
> but, eric or nick, they knew some crazy shit i never learned...
>
> they would like, make a character, run out into the world NAKED and outduel
> other players that outranked them, and be like level 20 in those same 3
> months and be hanging out in like level 40 areas.
>
> and nick...
>
> in gemstone theres all these weird rules how skilsl interact like theres
> something called redux? basically if you were good at running jumping
> climbing and things like that you got natural armor bonuses. Also if you
> were ever laying down in that game you were uber vulnerable just like RL.
> Like a level 5 guy could knife a level 50 guy to death in 1 shot if he was
> laying down.
>
> so like, if i remember this right, nick exploited the redux system and laid
> on the ground naked and let someone hit him with a 2 handed sword and he
> survived.
>
> something crazy like that.
>
> also i remember eric made a boxing and 2 handed sword wizard... wizard got a
> haste spell to help with round time, so eric made a wizard that would haste
> himself and box the fuck out of things with instantaneous attacks. He also
> made a claidmore wielding wizard that hasted himself so he had normal round
> times.
>
> of course if anything ever hit the wizard he'd pop like a grape, but there's
> also this thing called stance dancing where you can time offense / defense
> optimally.
>
> it's an insane game.... i kinda wanna play it again now hehe
>
> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 10:29 PM, Chris Riccobono <crysalim@xxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
>>
>> You bring up a really good point Alan - a player will only go the
>> faster route if that is best for the game.
>>
>> I am biased in a way, because most action games act that way, and thus
>> I think like that too. Having a slower speed based on armor actually
>> does work in some instances, like in Team Fortress 2, the Heavy class
>> moves at almost half speed of the rest of the players, for the benefit
>> of very strong offense and defense.
>>
>> I didn't play Gemstone so unfortunately I can't flesh out the
>> mechanics fully in my mind, but I will try to poke things in the
>> direction of more fun when I can :P
>>
>> 5 different jumps will matter only as much as we design the game for
>> them to matter. In Diablo 2, the barb jump skill only let you cross
>> certain terrain that wasn't walkable, so having so many different jump
>> lengths was easily solved - just make the pits larger. If we can find
>> an easy solution in our game - an equivalent to "just making the pits
>> larger" - then we can add as many jumps as we want, and even make them
>> scale into flying!
>>
>> I recently learned how to do the shinespark tricks in Metroid
>> Redesign, and if we could make our jumps in the game require a skill
>> curve somehow, that would reward the player for the ability to jump
>> higher... almost like how in 3d Mario games, you have to jump right as
>> you hit the ground again, within a certain amount of time, so you can
>> do the triple jump.
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 10:13 PM, Alan Wolfe<alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> > well here's my take...
>> >
>> > "will 5 different jumps enhance the game enough to warrant the amount
>> > of
>> > coding, designing, and bug testing they will require?"
>> >
>> > I had some concerns about design and testing that the multiple jumps
>> > would
>> > bring up but those were all put to rest pretty well. Where it stands
>> > now, I
>> > think it's ok from design because of the mentality of "if they find a
>> > way to
>> > circumvent a jump power to them" and the recall with penalties takes
>> > care of
>> > the problem of ever getting stuck. From a testing pov it does up the
>> > testing a little bit, but again with that same attitude towards design
>> > of
>> > "so what if they get there sooner", that eases testing time a lot so
>> > there
>> > is testing impact but we arent talking about quadruple testing time
>> > anymore
>> > or anything like that. Not even double, which is nice.
>> >
>> > "In action based games, skilled players will go towards what is as fast
>> > and
>> > damaging as possible, and will avoid things like that on purpose."
>> >
>> > have you played tower defenses before? Whats the best strategy - build
>> > a
>> > lot of weak towers, or build a few powerful towers? The answer of
>> > course is
>> > it depends on the rules/costs/etc of the tower defense. In the same
>> > way,
>> > that a player would go for what is as fast and as damaging as possible
>> > is
>> > only a good thing if our game is set up with that being the optimal way
>> > to
>> > play. For instance, what if we made it so damager per second (if we are
>> > considering both speed and damage together) got much lower with faster
>> > weapons, while slower weapons had huger dps but of course were lots
>> > slower.
>> > It would make the area a lot greyer whether you want to 1 shot enemies
>> > (bad
>> > against groups) or be able to spread your damage more thinly across
>> > multiple
>> > targets with your speed (good against groups, bad against single
>> > targets).
>> >
>> > From knowing where the concepts for our combat are coming (a lot of
>> > gemstone
>> > in there) i know that there will be different times for different
>> > tactics
>> > which make the variety a good thing, and if we do it well, what exactly
>> > the
>> > rigth combination is will be masked pretty well if there even is 1 clear
>> > path to optimum. Hopefully we'll have several optimal paths.
>> >
>> > " think having two jump settings would be more feasible."
>> >
>> > I kind of think if we stick to 5 jump strengths, it will feel more like
>> > an
>> > analog setting instead of 5 distinct levels. Like the barb's jump skill
>> > in
>> > D2, each little point helps a little but a single point isn't THAT
>> > noticeable. Thats how i think it'll feel in the end but i could be
>> > wrong.
>> >
>> > My 2 cents anyhow :P
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 9:47 PM, Chris Riccobono <crysalim@xxxxxxxxx>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I didn't add this to the last email - I think having two jump settings
>> >> would be more feasible. If we need additional control over a jump
>> >> beyond that, we can just implement slow/fast fall, flying, or other
>> >> things.
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 9:46 PM, Chris Riccobono<crysalim@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > 5 different jump levels is going to complicate things a bit more than
>> >> > we want. Try to keep in mind that the ideal is to make the game more
>> >> > fun. Ask yourself, will 5 different jumps enhance the game enough to
>> >> > warrant the amount of coding, designing, and bug testing they will
>> >> > require?
>> >> >
>> >> > To reiterate what I tried to stress early on, we want the game to be
>> >> > as fun as possible, as simply as possible. Having a complex game is
>> >> > great if it enhances the experience, but if it doesn't, it becomes a
>> >> > hinderance - just another game, in other words.
>> >> >
>> >> > To give you a specific example, your idea about armor making you
>> >> > slower and jump shorter will generally make players avoid doing that
>> >> > in any instance they can. In action based games, skilled players
>> >> > will
>> >> > go towards what is as fast and damaging as possible, and will avoid
>> >> > things like that on purpose.
>> >> >
>> >> > Also, having injuries slow you down will make players feel like they
>> >> > can't be damaged. For things like this you want to flip the tables,
>> >> > and instead create armor that gives players more speed, but they take
>> >> > more damage. It might seem like a small thing, but in the eyes of a
>> >> > player it can make a huge difference in gameplay.
>> >> >
>> >> > Basically ask yourself if you would play the game and have fun doing
>> >> > the things you imagine.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 6:14 PM, Alan Wolfe<alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> >> you know the kind of cool thing about this too
>> >> >>
>> >> >> we could actually make situations that you couldn't escape from, and
>> >> >> have
>> >> >> things like pits that when you fall into them you die instantly and
>> >> >> return
>> >> >> to the void.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> those are really mean (literally!) features but if we use them
>> >> >> sparingly or
>> >> >> in some kind of "i told you not to look in the box" situations that
>> >> >> could be
>> >> >> actually pretty funny.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> im not sure if you are down with it, but it would bring a feeling of
>> >> >> mortality :P
>> >> >>
>> >> >> ps i'll add the previous ideas to the wiki once i get home if no one
>> >> >> else
>> >> >> has by then. I dont mind but just can't right now :P
>> >> >> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:44 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> yes - harsh but like i said, its an emergency only option to be as
>> >> >>> a
>> >> >>> last
>> >> >>> resort... i think any other way of doing it will allow too many
>> >> >>> holes
>> >> >>> for
>> >> >>> exploits (such as exp or item farming, etc)
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 8:43 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >> >>> wrote:
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> so would you lose all exp, gold and items gained then?
>> >> >>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:41 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >> >>>> wrote:
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> yeah i think that is what we';ll do, you can recall to the void
>> >> >>>>> at
>> >> >>>>> any
>> >> >>>>> time but it effectively just restores a saved game so you gain no
>> >> >>>>> benefit to
>> >> >>>>> it. We'll make this sort of a last ditch option, so we'll try to
>> >> >>>>> design it
>> >> >>>>> so people never have to use it under normal circumstances
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 8:39 PM, Alan Wolfe
>> >> >>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >> >>>>> wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> no, im just here to poke holes in your ideas <g>
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> jk but no im not sure... other than perhaps the player can
>> >> >>>>>> return
>> >> >>>>>> to
>> >> >>>>>> the void at any time, and the cost is that you've lost all the
>> >> >>>>>> time
>> >> >>>>>> you've
>> >> >>>>>> taken to progress to where you are (ie you have to walk back)
>> >> >>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:38 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >> >>>>>> wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>> wait i take that back, i'll have to think of a real solution.
>> >> >>>>>>> any
>> >> >>>>>>> ideas?
>> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 8:35 PM, Alan Wolfe
>> >> >>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >> >>>>>>> wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>> ok
>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>> is recall always going to be available?
>> >> >>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:35 PM, eric drewes
>> >> >>>>>>>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >> >>>>>>>> wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>> recall
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 8:33 PM, Alan Wolfe
>> >> >>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>> ok sounds good. the lax attitude and not needing perfection
>> >> >>>>>>>>>> will
>> >> >>>>>>>>>> make it alot easier to test and build. We'll just have to
>> >> >>>>>>>>>> make
>> >> >>>>>>>>>> sure and
>> >> >>>>>>>>>> keep that in mind when designing things.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>> actually i think we will probably still have to do a lot of
>> >> >>>>>>>>>> testing
>> >> >>>>>>>>>> with the various jumps to make sure people can't get
>> >> >>>>>>>>>> somewhere
>> >> >>>>>>>>>> they arent
>> >> >>>>>>>>>> meant to be that they cant get out of - ie i can enter this
>> >> >>>>>>>>>> level 3 jump
>> >> >>>>>>>>>> area but i can't escape.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>> what's your thoughts on that situation?
>> >> >>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:29 PM, eric drewes
>> >> >>>>>>>>>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> well 2 things...
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> 1 - i am comfortable with the testing, i think it'll add a
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> lot
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> to
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> the game - what do you guys think?
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> 2 - alan i would really say we'd only need to test for 2
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> things -
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> the ability for level 2 to get past areas that have no
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> non-jumping route
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> through and to make sure tier 5 people can't exploit
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> anything
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> we don't want
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> them too... i would say if a tier 3 person can find a way
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> to
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> get over
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> something designed as a secret for level 4 people, then
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> that
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> is ok w/ me,
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> and likewise with level 4 getting to level 5 areas. if
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> they
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> can find a way
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> to overcome the handicap, i dont want to stop them :)
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 8:25 PM, Alan Wolfe
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> and of course another option is we just design it where
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> fine
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> tuned details like that aren't important
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> like if you can jump it instead of having to get a rope
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> and
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> climb
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> up, who cares!
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> but shrug just wanted to point out this aspect of the
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> solution!
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:17 PM, Alan Wolfe
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I like the idea. It deffinately makes thigns more
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> exploration
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> based since we could put places that you can't get to
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> while
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> starting out
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> This isn't a deal breaker but i want to point out this
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> will
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> increase testing and designing time:
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> * all maps will have to be played with the highest jump
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> level to
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> make sure they cant exploit anything they shouldn't be
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> able
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> * all maps will have to played with the lowest jump level
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> make sure the minimum we want passable is passable
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> * for maps which have a specific jump requirement areas
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> (ie
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> level 3 lets you get to this area) we'll have to play
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> that level as
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> well as the next level down to make sure the one below
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> can't
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> get up too.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:11 PM, eric drewes
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> what do you guys think of that scale? that way we dont
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> have to
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> guess when we design and we have a baseline standard
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 7:58 PM, eric drewes
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and a voice spoke from the mountain tops, "and let it
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> spoken, there shall be 5 different tiers of jumping
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ability, one for hardly
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any jump at all, the next for between the current jump
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the previous
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> levels not-really-a-jump, the third is what is there
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> now,
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the fourth for a
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jump equal to 1.5x as high/far as the 3rd and a fifth
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that is triple the
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> normal jump - this will be reserved for special facet,
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> item boosts or a max
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 100 quickness bonus.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> basically it is like this:
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> level 1) barely a jump at all, this will be for
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> incredibly
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fat characters (w/ the fat facet) people with super
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heavy
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> armor that they
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aren't strong enough to wear, incredibly injured
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people,
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people with snake
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> torsos, etc :-P
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> level 2) this is what people wearing plate/heavy chain
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> armor,
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or have relatively strong long injuries, etc. etc.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> level 3) most characters will have this jump, traps,
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should be designed with this as the minimum - though
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> basically we want it to
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be a challenge for level 3 people. some areas can be
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> designed so it's
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> inaccessible without level 4 though, but nothing vital
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> passing the map -
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also, traps/jump areas that aren't accessible except
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> through jumping should
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> use level 2 as a minimum.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> level 4) super athletic character with light or no
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> armor
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have this, they can reach special areas the other 3
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> levels can't, jump
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> puzzles should be easier for level 4
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> level 5) these characters are magically imbued or have
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> super
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> humanly agility, maybe they have little wings, etc. by
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> passable traps, areas
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that can only be reached via long distance travel, etc
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> these characters have
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a big advantage on all jumping matters.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 7:29 PM, Kent Petersen
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Man, that sounds awful. At least we have learned
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> these
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lessons and now know how to prevent them
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 4:26 PM, Alan Wolfe
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> btw line rider had the same issues tee hee
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In line rider, people were exploiting a simple
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> physics
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulation to do tricks like gravity wells and nose
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> grinds and other stuff.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when we made the commercial version of the game we
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> had
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make sure all the tricks were still possible and we
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> brought in tech dawg to
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> play it and make sure everything was still kosher.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the parts that sucked - whenever we optomized
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the game it would break all existing test maps we
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> had
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> made so we had to wait
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> til the very end of the game to make the puzzle
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maps.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also, since the DS, Wii and PC all have different
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> floating
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> point math chips in them (and ds had diff code),
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maps
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wouldn't work the same
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on all the different platforms so we had to keep
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sharing to be on the same
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> platform it was created on.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 3:50 PM, Alan Wolfe
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its ok man ::shakes you:: the wars over, nixon is
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outa
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> office now
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 3:48 PM, Kent Petersen
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Kent is having megaman flashbacks*
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 3:47 PM, Alan Wolfe
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> indeed! I'm going to re-iterate what you said
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kent
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so people understand the importance
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we should figure out how high / far we want the
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> player
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to be able to jump and how strong gravity should
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> muey importante~!
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> once we decide we can't change without having to
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rebuild
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and rebalance any existing physics dependant maps
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (ie skill jumps, gaps that
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the player should or should not be able to jump
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc) which is a total
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pain and could really be really really
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> destructive
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to our game having to
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rebuild and rebalance a whole bunch of crap
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> later.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, lookin at you Eric, we should talk about
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> finalizing.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is there anything specifically you for sure want
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> player to be able to do? IE jump across a
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> certain
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distance, jump over a
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> certain hight object etc
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 3:31 PM, Kent Petersen
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What did you want to do for the first trap? I
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> imagined
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that there would be 5 or so different looking
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tiles. Then there would be one
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> correct kind of tile (not the diamond). Then the
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> player would have to jump
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about through the tiles to the correct ones. I
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figured it would work
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> similarly to the ones that were on kenttest.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What's your thoughts on that?
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Before you get to into designing the temple I
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> highly suggest that we nail down player control
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jumping physics. Let me
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> warn you from experience, if we change how any
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that works your temple
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will become obsolete.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 3:25 PM, Kent Petersen
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Been really busy today and will probably be
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> busy
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> next couple days. I would suggest leaving the
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trap
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> areas open for now. If
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you are willing to push on anyway and have
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> specific questions, send em my
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way and I will be happy to help out when I get
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chance.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 2:23 PM, Alan Wolfe
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Man that's awesome
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 2:16 PM, Apache User
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <dhapache@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> User:rorac
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Message: Expanded a little on templemap,
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> added
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> template code as per Kent's advisement.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Need a sign (next room is diamond path).
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kent, I
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will need your help to help build that part
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> begin putting traps in the
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hallway (first right = first trap area).
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <Files Changed>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> U Scripts/Maps/templemap.lua
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A Scripts/Maps/templemap_geometry.lua
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
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