[project1dev] Re: Project1 - SVN Update 270
- From: eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 20:44:48 -0400
yes - harsh but like i said, its an emergency only option to be as a last
resort... i think any other way of doing it will allow too many holes for
exploits (such as exp or item farming, etc)
On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 8:43 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> so would you lose all exp, gold and items gained then?
> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:41 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> yeah i think that is what we';ll do, you can recall to the void at any
>> time but it effectively just restores a saved game so you gain no benefit to
>> it. We'll make this sort of a last ditch option, so we'll try to design it
>> so people never have to use it under normal circumstances
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 8:39 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>> no, im just here to poke holes in your ideas <g>
>>>
>>> jk but no im not sure... other than perhaps the player can return to the
>>> void at any time, and the cost is that you've lost all the time you've taken
>>> to progress to where you are (ie you have to walk back)
>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:38 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>
>>>> wait i take that back, i'll have to think of a real solution. any
>>>> ideas?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 8:35 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> ok
>>>>>
>>>>> is recall always going to be available?
>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:35 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> recall
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 8:33 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ok sounds good. the lax attitude and not needing perfection will
>>>>>>> make it alot easier to test and build. We'll just have to make sure and
>>>>>>> keep that in mind when designing things.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> actually i think we will probably still have to do a lot of testing
>>>>>>> with the various jumps to make sure people can't get somewhere they
>>>>>>> arent
>>>>>>> meant to be that they cant get out of - ie i can enter this level 3 jump
>>>>>>> area but i can't escape.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> what's your thoughts on that situation?
>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:29 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> well 2 things...
>>>>>>>> 1 - i am comfortable with the testing, i think it'll add a lot to
>>>>>>>> the game - what do you guys think?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2 - alan i would really say we'd only need to test for 2 things -
>>>>>>>> the ability for level 2 to get past areas that have no non-jumping
>>>>>>>> route
>>>>>>>> through and to make sure tier 5 people can't exploit anything we don't
>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>> them too... i would say if a tier 3 person can find a way to get over
>>>>>>>> something designed as a secret for level 4 people, then that is ok w/
>>>>>>>> me,
>>>>>>>> and likewise with level 4 getting to level 5 areas. if they can find
>>>>>>>> a way
>>>>>>>> to overcome the handicap, i dont want to stop them :)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 8:25 PM, Alan Wolfe
>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> and of course another option is we just design it where fine tuned
>>>>>>>>> details like that aren't important
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> like if you can jump it instead of having to get a rope and climb
>>>>>>>>> up, who cares!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> but shrug just wanted to point out this aspect of the solution!
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:17 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I like the idea. It deffinately makes thigns more exploration
>>>>>>>>>> based since we could put places that you can't get to while starting
>>>>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This isn't a deal breaker but i want to point out this will
>>>>>>>>>> increase testing and designing time:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> * all maps will have to be played with the highest jump level to
>>>>>>>>>> make sure they cant exploit anything they shouldn't be able to
>>>>>>>>>> * all maps will have to played with the lowest jump level to make
>>>>>>>>>> sure the minimum we want passable is passable
>>>>>>>>>> * for maps which have a specific jump requirement areas (ie level
>>>>>>>>>> 3 lets you get to this area) we'll have to play with that level as
>>>>>>>>>> well as
>>>>>>>>>> the next level down to make sure the one below can't get up too.
>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:11 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> what do you guys think of that scale? that way we dont have to
>>>>>>>>>>> guess when we design and we have a baseline standard
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 7:58 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and a voice spoke from the mountain tops, "and let it be
>>>>>>>>>>>>> spoken, there shall be 5 different tiers of jumping ability, one
>>>>>>>>>>>>> for hardly
>>>>>>>>>>>>> any jump at all, the next for between the current jump and the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> previous
>>>>>>>>>>>>> levels not-really-a-jump, the third is what is there now, the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> fourth for a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> jump equal to 1.5x as high/far as the 3rd and a fifth that is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> triple the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> normal jump - this will be reserved for special facet, item
>>>>>>>>>>>>> boosts or a max
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 100 quickness bonus.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> basically it is like this:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> level 1) barely a jump at all, this will be for incredibly fat
>>>>>>>>>>>>> characters (w/ the fat facet) people with super heavy armor that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> they aren't
>>>>>>>>>>>>> strong enough to wear, incredibly injured people, people with
>>>>>>>>>>>>> snake torsos,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc :-P
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> level 2) this is what people wearing plate/heavy chain armor,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> or have relatively strong long injuries, etc. etc. will have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> level 3) most characters will have this jump, traps, etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> should be designed with this as the minimum - though basically we
>>>>>>>>>>>>> want it to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> be a challenge for level 3 people. some areas can be designed so
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's
>>>>>>>>>>>>> inaccessible without level 4 though, but nothing vital to passing
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the map -
>>>>>>>>>>>>> also, traps/jump areas that aren't accessible except through
>>>>>>>>>>>>> jumping should
>>>>>>>>>>>>> use level 2 as a minimum.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> level 4) super athletic character with light or no armor will
>>>>>>>>>>>>> have this, they can reach special areas the other 3 levels can't,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> jump
>>>>>>>>>>>>> puzzles should be easier for level 4
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> level 5) these characters are magically imbued or have super
>>>>>>>>>>>>> humanly agility, maybe they have little wings, etc. by passable
>>>>>>>>>>>>> traps, areas
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that can only be reached via long distance travel, etc these
>>>>>>>>>>>>> characters have
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a big advantage on all jumping matters.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 7:29 PM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Man, that sounds awful. At least we have learned these lessons
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and now know how to prevent them
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 4:26 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> btw line rider had the same issues tee hee
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In line rider, people were exploiting a simple physics
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulation to do tricks like gravity wells and nose grinds and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other stuff.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when we made the commercial version of the game we had to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make sure all the tricks were still possible and we brought in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tech dawg to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> play it and make sure everything was still kosher.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the parts that sucked - whenever we optomized something in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the game it would break all existing test maps we had made so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we had to wait
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> til the very end of the game to make the puzzle maps.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also, since the DS, Wii and PC all have different floating
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> point math chips in them (and ds had diff code), maps wouldn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work the same
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on all the different platforms so we had to keep sharing to be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the same
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> platform it was created on.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 3:50 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its ok man ::shakes you:: the wars over, nixon is outa
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> office now
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 3:48 PM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Kent is having megaman flashbacks*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 3:47 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> indeed! I'm going to re-iterate what you said Kent just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so people understand the importance
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we should figure out how high / far we want the player to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be able to jump and how strong gravity should be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> muey importante~!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> once we decide we can't change without having to rebuild
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and rebalance any existing physics dependant maps (ie skill
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jumps, gaps that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the player should or should not be able to jump over etc)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which is a total
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pain and could really be really really destructive to our
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> game having to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rebuild and rebalance a whole bunch of crap later.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, lookin at you Eric, we should talk about finalizing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is there anything specifically you for sure want the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> player to be able to do? IE jump across a certain distance,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jump over a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> certain hight object etc
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 3:31 PM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What did you want to do for the first trap? I imagined
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that there would be 5 or so different looking tiles. Then
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there would be one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> correct kind of tile (not the diamond). Then the player
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would have to jump
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about through the tiles to the correct ones. I figured it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would work
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> similarly to the ones that were on kenttest.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What's your thoughts on that?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Before you get to into designing the temple I would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> highly suggest that we nail down player control and jumping
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> physics. Let me
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> warn you from experience, if we change how any of that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> works your temple
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will become obsolete.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 3:25 PM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Been really busy today and will probably be busy the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> next couple days. I would suggest leaving the trap areas
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> open for now. If
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you are willing to push on anyway and have specific
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> questions, send em my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way and I will be happy to help out when I get a chance.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 2:23 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Man that's awesome
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 2:16 PM, Apache User <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dhapache@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> User:rorac
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Message: Expanded a little on templemap, added
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> template code as per Kent's advisement.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Need a sign (next room is diamond path). Kent, I will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> need your help to help build that part and begin putting
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> traps in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hallway (first right = first trap area).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <Files Changed>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> U Scripts/Maps/templemap.lua
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A Scripts/Maps/templemap_geometry.lua
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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