[project1dev] Re: Project1 - SVN Update 270
- From: Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 18:14:19 -0700
you know the kind of cool thing about this too
we could actually make situations that you couldn't escape from, and have
things like pits that when you fall into them you die instantly and return
to the void.
those are really mean (literally!) features but if we use them sparingly or
in some kind of "i told you not to look in the box" situations that could be
actually pretty funny.
im not sure if you are down with it, but it would bring a feeling of
mortality :P
ps i'll add the previous ideas to the wiki once i get home if no one else
has by then. I dont mind but just can't right now :P
On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:44 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> yes - harsh but like i said, its an emergency only option to be as a last
> resort... i think any other way of doing it will allow too many holes for
> exploits (such as exp or item farming, etc)
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 8:43 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> so would you lose all exp, gold and items gained then?
>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:41 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>> yeah i think that is what we';ll do, you can recall to the void at any
>>> time but it effectively just restores a saved game so you gain no benefit to
>>> it. We'll make this sort of a last ditch option, so we'll try to design it
>>> so people never have to use it under normal circumstances
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 8:39 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>
>>>> no, im just here to poke holes in your ideas <g>
>>>>
>>>> jk but no im not sure... other than perhaps the player can return to the
>>>> void at any time, and the cost is that you've lost all the time you've
>>>> taken
>>>> to progress to where you are (ie you have to walk back)
>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:38 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> wait i take that back, i'll have to think of a real solution. any
>>>>> ideas?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 8:35 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> ok
>>>>>>
>>>>>> is recall always going to be available?
>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:35 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> recall
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 8:33 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ok sounds good. the lax attitude and not needing perfection will
>>>>>>>> make it alot easier to test and build. We'll just have to make sure
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> keep that in mind when designing things.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> actually i think we will probably still have to do a lot of testing
>>>>>>>> with the various jumps to make sure people can't get somewhere they
>>>>>>>> arent
>>>>>>>> meant to be that they cant get out of - ie i can enter this level 3
>>>>>>>> jump
>>>>>>>> area but i can't escape.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> what's your thoughts on that situation?
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:29 PM, eric drewes
>>>>>>>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> well 2 things...
>>>>>>>>> 1 - i am comfortable with the testing, i think it'll add a lot to
>>>>>>>>> the game - what do you guys think?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 2 - alan i would really say we'd only need to test for 2 things -
>>>>>>>>> the ability for level 2 to get past areas that have no non-jumping
>>>>>>>>> route
>>>>>>>>> through and to make sure tier 5 people can't exploit anything we
>>>>>>>>> don't want
>>>>>>>>> them too... i would say if a tier 3 person can find a way to get over
>>>>>>>>> something designed as a secret for level 4 people, then that is ok w/
>>>>>>>>> me,
>>>>>>>>> and likewise with level 4 getting to level 5 areas. if they can find
>>>>>>>>> a way
>>>>>>>>> to overcome the handicap, i dont want to stop them :)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 8:25 PM, Alan Wolfe
>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> and of course another option is we just design it where fine tuned
>>>>>>>>>> details like that aren't important
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> like if you can jump it instead of having to get a rope and climb
>>>>>>>>>> up, who cares!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> but shrug just wanted to point out this aspect of the solution!
>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:17 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I like the idea. It deffinately makes thigns more exploration
>>>>>>>>>>> based since we could put places that you can't get to while
>>>>>>>>>>> starting out
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> This isn't a deal breaker but i want to point out this will
>>>>>>>>>>> increase testing and designing time:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> * all maps will have to be played with the highest jump level to
>>>>>>>>>>> make sure they cant exploit anything they shouldn't be able to
>>>>>>>>>>> * all maps will have to played with the lowest jump level to make
>>>>>>>>>>> sure the minimum we want passable is passable
>>>>>>>>>>> * for maps which have a specific jump requirement areas (ie level
>>>>>>>>>>> 3 lets you get to this area) we'll have to play with that level as
>>>>>>>>>>> well as
>>>>>>>>>>> the next level down to make sure the one below can't get up too.
>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:11 PM, eric drewes <
>>>>>>>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> what do you guys think of that scale? that way we dont have to
>>>>>>>>>>>> guess when we design and we have a baseline standard
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 7:58 PM, eric drewes <
>>>>>>>>>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and a voice spoke from the mountain tops, "and let it be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> spoken, there shall be 5 different tiers of jumping ability, one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for hardly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any jump at all, the next for between the current jump and the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> previous
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> levels not-really-a-jump, the third is what is there now, the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fourth for a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jump equal to 1.5x as high/far as the 3rd and a fifth that is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> triple the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> normal jump - this will be reserved for special facet, item
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> boosts or a max
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 100 quickness bonus.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> basically it is like this:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> level 1) barely a jump at all, this will be for incredibly fat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> characters (w/ the fat facet) people with super heavy armor that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they aren't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> strong enough to wear, incredibly injured people, people with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> snake torsos,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc :-P
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> level 2) this is what people wearing plate/heavy chain armor,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or have relatively strong long injuries, etc. etc. will have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> level 3) most characters will have this jump, traps, etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should be designed with this as the minimum - though basically
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we want it to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be a challenge for level 3 people. some areas can be designed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so it's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> inaccessible without level 4 though, but nothing vital to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> passing the map -
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also, traps/jump areas that aren't accessible except through
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jumping should
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> use level 2 as a minimum.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> level 4) super athletic character with light or no armor will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have this, they can reach special areas the other 3 levels
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can't, jump
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> puzzles should be easier for level 4
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> level 5) these characters are magically imbued or have super
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> humanly agility, maybe they have little wings, etc. by passable
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> traps, areas
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that can only be reached via long distance travel, etc these
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> characters have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a big advantage on all jumping matters.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 7:29 PM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Man, that sounds awful. At least we have learned these
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lessons and now know how to prevent them
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 4:26 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> btw line rider had the same issues tee hee
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In line rider, people were exploiting a simple physics
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulation to do tricks like gravity wells and nose grinds and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other stuff.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when we made the commercial version of the game we had to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make sure all the tricks were still possible and we brought in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tech dawg to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> play it and make sure everything was still kosher.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the parts that sucked - whenever we optomized something in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the game it would break all existing test maps we had made so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we had to wait
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> til the very end of the game to make the puzzle maps.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also, since the DS, Wii and PC all have different floating
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> point math chips in them (and ds had diff code), maps wouldn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work the same
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on all the different platforms so we had to keep sharing to be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the same
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> platform it was created on.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 3:50 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its ok man ::shakes you:: the wars over, nixon is outa
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> office now
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 3:48 PM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Kent is having megaman flashbacks*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 3:47 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> indeed! I'm going to re-iterate what you said Kent just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so people understand the importance
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we should figure out how high / far we want the player to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be able to jump and how strong gravity should be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> muey importante~!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> once we decide we can't change without having to rebuild
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and rebalance any existing physics dependant maps (ie skill
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jumps, gaps that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the player should or should not be able to jump over etc)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which is a total
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pain and could really be really really destructive to our
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> game having to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rebuild and rebalance a whole bunch of crap later.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, lookin at you Eric, we should talk about finalizing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is there anything specifically you for sure want the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> player to be able to do? IE jump across a certain
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distance, jump over a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> certain hight object etc
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 3:31 PM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What did you want to do for the first trap? I imagined
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that there would be 5 or so different looking tiles. Then
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there would be one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> correct kind of tile (not the diamond). Then the player
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would have to jump
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about through the tiles to the correct ones. I figured it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would work
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> similarly to the ones that were on kenttest.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What's your thoughts on that?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Before you get to into designing the temple I would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> highly suggest that we nail down player control and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jumping physics. Let me
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> warn you from experience, if we change how any of that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> works your temple
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will become obsolete.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 3:25 PM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Been really busy today and will probably be busy the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> next couple days. I would suggest leaving the trap areas
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> open for now. If
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you are willing to push on anyway and have specific
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> questions, send em my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way and I will be happy to help out when I get a chance.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 2:23 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Man that's awesome
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 2:16 PM, Apache User <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dhapache@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> User:rorac
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Message: Expanded a little on templemap, added
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> template code as per Kent's advisement.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Need a sign (next room is diamond path). Kent, I will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> need your help to help build that part and begin
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> putting traps in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hallway (first right = first trap area).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <Files Changed>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> U Scripts/Maps/templemap.lua
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A Scripts/Maps/templemap_geometry.lua
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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