Re: Drupal and Microsoft CMS Options?

  • From: "RicksPlace" <ofbgmail@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2010 09:46:14 -0500

Hi Everett: OK, man can't get much more from the horses mouth so too speak! 
Your involvement with Drupal makes me really lean in that direction. As I asked 
Ken, what development do you uuse when creating a new website with several 
pages and dynamic, db driven content? I am running Windows XP so have shyed 
away from all those Linux emulator thingys like xampp etc... to run Apache and 
PHP. But... if you are a central figure in the Drupal arena then I may have to 
reconsider using something like that and getting into all that non MS stuff.
Thanks for any pointers and it's great to know you are in the midst of making 
one of the most popular software products out there totally accessible to other 
blind folks.
Let me know what you think the best development environment would be for me 
running Windows XP, VVisual Studio with Sql Server Express. Note: I mention sql 
server express as a couple of years ago I read of port conflicts with MySql and 
Sql Server when one of those apache / php platforms were installed on another 
fellow's Windows Machine. Anyway, thanks for your work on behalf of the 
community!
I am beginning to see why Ken and some of the other old timers do some of the 
things they do.
Rick USA
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: E.J. Zufelt 
  To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
  Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2010 8:51 AM
  Subject: Re: Drupal and Microsoft CMS Options?


  I considered proposing a CSUN session this year, but didn't find the time / 
energy to do it.  I will likely be presenting on accessibility of custom UI 
components using WAI-ARIA at Drupalcon Chicago in March.


  Thanks,

  Everett Zufelt

  http://zufelt.ca


  Follow me on Twitter
  http://twitter.com/ezufelt

  View my LinkedIn Profile
  http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt






  On 2010-12-11, at 8:14 AM, Ken Perry wrote:


    Do you ever do a presentation at CSUN?  If you don’t you should.  We use 
droople at APH and love it but it would be nice to get some Drooplites to do 
some presentations.

    Ken

    From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of E.J. Zufelt
    Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2010 6:48 AM
    To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
    Subject: Re: Drupal and Microsoft CMS Options?

    Good morning,

    Thought I'd jump in here.  I am currently the Drupal 7 Core accessibility 
maintainer, which basically means I help to organize efforts around ensuring 
that Drupal is the most accessible CMS that it can be.  We are by no means 
perfect, but we have made some noticeable improvements over Drupal 6, and 
Drupal 6 wasn't all that bad.

    Yes, Drupal powers Whitehouse.gov, along with many other government sites.  
It is a robust, secure and highly extensible CMS.  However, any accessibility 
problems you may notice on a site powered by Drupal has very little to do with 
Drupal itself, sometimes people who make custom themes for Drupal end up making 
their site less accessible than Drupal would be out of the box, because they 
know little if anything about accessibility.

    Drupal is a more difficult to learn system than something like Wordpress.  
Generally speaking, Wordpress is designed for people who want to quickly throw 
up their own site, whereas Drupal is designed for site builders and developers 
as a platform that can be used to launch more complex web solutions.  With the 
recent release of Wordpress 3 and the soon to be released Drupal 7 (currently 
in RC1), this difference has been lessened, but definitely still exists.

    Both Wordpress and Drupal have many contributed modules and themes, to 
extend functionality and to modify the look and feel (along with the markup) of 
your site.  Most anything you would ever want a Drupal site to do can be 
accomplished with existing contributed modules.  If you do need functionality 
that is currently not acheivable with contributed modules then you would need 
to create a module using the module API, modules are developed in PHP, as is 
all of Drupal.

    HTH,
    Everett Zufelt
    http://zufelt.ca

    Follow me on Twitter
    http://twitter.com/ezufelt

    View my LinkedIn Profile
    http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt



    On 2010-12-11, at 5:46 AM, RicksPlace wrote:



    Hi Katherine: Well, don't give up on MS just yet. I have just started 
looking at how to develop Sharepoint solutions in Visual Studio and it sounds 
pretty clean and powerful as an integrated approach. I know I tried building a 
Local Website using Web Parts in VB.net 2008 and found the experience not 
screen reader friendly. Or, at least, not as friendly as using standard UI 
Controls in a regular old Website. When Windoweyes 8 comes out I might take a 
look at Vb.net 2010 to see what, if any, Sharepoint tools are included in the 
package and how accessible they are. In the meantime I have seen that various 
U.S. Government agencies and even the White House are supposedly using Drupal 
according to one Drupal Website Webpage. That means that it must be accessible 
and quite configurable since I would never have guessed those websites were CMS 
sites. They just look and perform like regular websites unlike many of the 
Drupal and other CMS sites I have visited recently. So, it seems Drupal can be 
used effectively if one knows what they are doing. My only reason for not 
jumping on it is that I like to develop on my local machine and to do that with 
Drupal I would have to either install something like xampp or whatever to get a 
simulated Linux Environment, set up a Duel Boot software disc somehow or 
implement the Microsoft IIS based Web Platform which is a huge mess to fix if 
anything goes wrong with any of it's many,, many modules installed. In fact, 
one problem would likely be port conflicts between my current Sql Server and 
the MySql server which would be automatically installed. Anyway, I don't like 
headaches so am just holding off on playing with Drupal even though it sounds 
pretty nice I am of the KISS school of thought - Keep It Simple Sir! (Note: you 
can substitute any word starting with "S" for the word "Sir" in the above 
phrase - grin. Oh Ya, I am not so sure that the thousand or so apps created by 
third party folks are designed to be accessible to screen readers so that is 
always a concern as well when working with an Open Source Project with no 
Accessibility standards for third party software plugs or apps.
    Well, that's all I have this morning from
    chilly Farmington Michigan and I am off to do a little more reading on 
Visual Studio 2010 and Sharepoint 2010 with any related offerings like Office 
or other modules and compare the development and maintenance process to that of 
Drupal. Right now I am not sure which way to fall - headaches with Linux on a 
Windows machine or working in Visual Studio and withthe built-in Sharepoint and 
other tools and the learning curve of WPF and Silverlight if necessary. I 
really will tend twoard the one that is the most stable over the next 5 years 
or so, has the easiest procedures for working with sites and offers the 
greatest flexibility. Oh ya, also add in a weighted factor based on the 
learning curve. I would like to work in the Linux environment mainly because so 
many of the old timers on this list work in it but I have had my doubts about 
how productive I might be in that environment compared to a comprehensive 
integrated IDE.
    I must wait  for  Windoweyes 8 to see how accessible vb.net 2010 or other 
VS products will be with it since they use the new UIA Accessibility hooks.
    Later Katherine and don't give up on MS Stuff just pick the right tool for 
the job - that is what the qualified professionals do:
    Rick USA
    ----- Original Message ----- From: "Katherine Moss" 
<plymouthroamer285@xxxxxxxxx>
    To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
    Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2010 1:27 AM
    Subject: RE: Drupal and Microsoft CMS Options?




    Oh gosh, Jamal, thanks!  These anti-Microsoft folks are killing me!  And
      whoever called Mojo Portal "Mojo thing that no one has heard of" better
      think again.  I'm a volunteer on the project, and I don't appreciate
      people's work being insulted.  And besides, that CMS works on Linux 
despite
      it's coding.

      -----Original Message-----
      From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
      [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jamal Mazrui
      Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 12:27 PM
      To: ProgrammingBlind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
      Subject: RE: Drupal and Microsoft CMS Options?

      Hi Rick,
      Here is the web site of an ASP.NET-based CMS:

      DotNetNuke - The Leading Open Source Web Content Management Platform for
      ASP.NET -

      http://www.dotnetnuke.com/

      Jamal

      -----Original Message-----
      From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
      [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of RicksPlace
      Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 9:43 AM
      To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
      Subject: Re: Drupal and Microsoft CMS Options?

      Hi Gang: Jim, I don't know just yet. My preference would be to just learn
      whatever Jamal is doing but I am now thinking of putting up some sites for
      some blind folks so their sites are kept up to date and work well with
      screen readers so I am not sure about the scope of my involvement. It 
might
      be Drupal based or, more likely if really accessible, something in the
      Microsoft venu since I am familiar with their DB stuff and coding websites
      using various ASP Controls and Server Side coding technicals.
      For development I might use one of the packages Jacques or Katherine
      mentioned but I can start reading up on them to get some color on what 
this
      stuff is all about.
      Hay, Jacques, are you French? If so, are you from across the pond?
      Later and thanks for the ideas to explore.
      Rick Farmington Michigan USA

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Katherine Moss <mailto:plymouthroamer285@xxxxxxxxx>
      To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
      Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 9:19 AM
      Subject: RE: Drupal and Microsoft CMS Options?


      Look at both Umbraco and Mojo Portal.



      From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
      [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of RicksPlace
      Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 8:01 AM
      To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
      Subject: Drupal and Microsoft CMS Options?



      Hi: I know very little about CMS. As a result of Jamal using it, I
      have looked at some of the Drupal docs by googling but am having trouble
      wrapping my head around exactly how it all works since I am an old
      Microsoft user. I am trying to figure out a similar option in the
      Microsoft World. So far I think that Sharepoint and Open Office, both 2010
      versionws with accessibility, sound like they are the Microsoft
      counterpart to Drupal. does this sound about right? Since they support
      ARIA and the other new Web Standards, or at least some articles say they
      do, has anyone tried them out? If there is another Microsoft thingy where
      it looks or works sort of a CMS with DB storage and perhaps Media support
      could you mention it so I can do a little more digging?

      It looks like allot of blind folks are trying to use various CMS
      Websites and most of them are pretty bad. They also sound almost as
      complex to create and maintain as a standard Website developed in
      something like VWD. Anyway, thanks for any input you provide on CMS,
      Drupal or any Microsoft counterpart products that I can research a little
      more.

      Again, the Microsoft 2010 versions of the Open Office and
      Sharepoint are suppose to be accessible where the older versions were not
      very accessible if that helps.

      Rick USA


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