[guispeak] Re: here's the missing post...
- From: "Laura Eaves" <leaves1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 17:59:23 -0500
Agreed! Thanks for the response...
Take care!
--le
----- Original Message -----
From: "david poehlman" <david.poehlman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 5:27 PM
Subject: [guispeak] Re: here's the missing post...
> Progress is good, not all change is good especially when the change
> impacts
> negatively on those who are the target of what is changing. For instance,
> if microsoft is putting out something and says it is accessible but it
> cost
> 250 dollars to get it and you already have something that works well but
> it's not the latest and greatest and in order to run some of the new stuff
> that say is free, you have to spend this 250 dollars that you don't have
> nad
> can't get, this is not good change. If someone says they have a free
> course
> for you but you have to spend several hundred dollars to get a computer
> and
> an nternet connection to take advantage of it and you can't afford the
> outlay, it may as well not be available. So, when we impose change, an
> impact assessment needs to be part of the guiding force of the change so
> that the system can be properly developped. there is all kinds of
> research
> and development and I have seen situations where r&d worked quite well
> together because development looked at research and helped shape the
> research and vise versa. Research needs to be done not only on new ways
> to
> do things, but on the cost of ownership and potential impacts of those new
> things.
>
> Johnnie Apple Seed
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Laura Eaves" <leaves1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 5:14 PM
> Subject: [guispeak] Re: here's the missing post...
>
>
> Hi Dave --
> Well I wasn't pointing to you personally, and I am glad you have a wide
> range of technology and gadgets and experience with it, which is helpful
> in
> your work I'm sure.
> I guess I'm not as pessimistic about technological advancements.
> I think we as blind persons needing special access expect too much of
> technology -- it is perfectly fine for research to be done and new
> products
> to be turned out that appeal to sighted persons and perhas initially or
> even
> permanently not accessible, if only in a few features. That is the nature
> of research vs development.
> I had a unique position at work as I was in an organization that was stuck
> kind of between research and development, and there was a constant battle
> or
> conflict between research, wanting to put new stuff into their prototypes
> before the product went out as if it didn't go in then, it might never be
> accepted later -- versus on the other hadd, the customer support people
> who
> argued that there were people who had invested time and energy and money
> doing development on top of the new product and didn't want such rapid
> change. Finally at one point, the 2 organizations split, but since
> research
> got its funding from development and the products sold by the company,
> they
> went public and the battle between the new and the old got out of hand and
> finally the development group was cancelled and a new development team was
> created that was much more closely tied to research. But such it goes.
> It
> was very painful, and I got caught up in the middle and even got emotional
> about it a few times, but looking back, progress is good, and I agreed
> that
> research shouldn't be frozen because it leaves some users lagging to keep
> up, at least for a while, and the accessibility features, while they
> should
> be addressed up front during research and not wait until later, at least
> provide the researchers and developers with continued employment, etc etc.
> It was a painful experience working for AT&T during the long process of
> divestature and technological and economic change, but really, change is
> good and is (as someone once said) the only thing that is unchanging
> <smile>
> and therefore people should try as best they can to keep abreast with it,
> and if they can't at least don't complain that it is a bad thing, only
> that
> the accessibility should be addressed earlier than it apparently is.
>
> So that's my soapbox.
> I had to learn the hard way, but I do believe in "progress" -- well
> actually, there was another quote that was popular when I was working and
> all the company reorgs were taking place: "change gives the illusion of
> progress..."
> Now that sounds like it contradicts what I have just been saying, but
> there
> are some changes that are valuable -- even if not always to a blind
> person -- and we need to keep abreast of things so we can differentiate
> and
> remain vocal about what is really needed and not cut down stuff that is a
> temporary barrier.
>
> Now as for low-income persons and institutions and schools not having the
> resources to upgrade, I I can understand that is a problem and don't have
> an
> answer. I think the ADA does help to solve some of at, but not all, and
> even the government doesn't have unlimited funds.
> But in the case of schools, companies have always donated equipment to
> schools to boost their business, not just via public relations, but also
> to
> get people experienced using their stuff, so now that the law is in favor
> of
> accessibility, they will be more anxious to work on it up front. (But
> maybe
> I'm dreaming...;)
> Take care!
> --le
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "david poehlman" <david.poehlman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 4:40 PM
> Subject: [guispeak] Re: here's the missing post...
>
>
>> I'm one of those fortunate people who happen to have access to three
>> computers. They range from an 6 year old pc to a right new 2.4ghz pc the
>> 6
>> year old is a pII 350mhz system running xp pro sp2 and has 128mb ram so
>> if
>> they tell you it can't be done, send 'em to me. The inbetweens are a
>> toshiba satelite 2400s201 with 384mb ram running at 1.6ghz I believe a
>> pii.
>> and a mac powerbook g4 which I dearly love even though it is only running
>> at
>> 667mhz it still out poerforms my toshiba 1.6.
>>
>> I fight on behalf of underfunded people and institutions who battle every
>> day just to keep what they have had for the past several years working
>> much
>> less affording to upgrade if you want to call it that them. Yeah, the
>> further we go the more "hooks" there and it kind of makes me wonder why
>> we
>> are loosing the accessibility fight, but that is another story entirely I
>> guess but take the example of microsoft windows media player 10. 9 was
>> perfectly find and then they had to come out with 10 while not
>> inaccessible
>> is a step down from what 9 was. Every time a new version of office comes
>> out, it has to be tweeked for before we can use it and every time a new
>> os
>> comes out, we need a new screen reader to cope with it and I hope that it
>> will be as easy with the next new os as it was with the last which was
>> still
>> quite a bear. Access? Let's see, can I read a document in print preview
>> yet? What if I decide I want that pretty blue theme on my desktop woops,
>> there goes my screen reader dead in the watter. What about changing the
>> font size so I can see it better or the contrast? Sorry, no screen
>> reader.
>> I can point out a lot about the os that we don't have access to and
>> haven't
>> had for a long time and yet, we are making strides?
>>
>> Johnnie Apple Seed
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Laura Eaves" <leaves1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: "guispeak" <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 4:29 PM
>> Subject: [guispeak] here's the missing post...
>>
>>
>> Hi Dave and all -- here is the post that never came back to me. Not that
>> it
>> is such an important and earth-shattering post, but I do want my posts to
>> get through...
>>
>> Anyway, here it is:
>>
>> Hi Dave --
>> Well that's true to an extent, if there are several choices of something
>> available to the general public, but only the most expensive is
>> accessible
>> to blind. (I ran into this even with something as unrelated as a sewing
>> machine -- the only accessible one was top-of-the-line, which my Mom
>> bought,
>> but I felt awful having her pay that much.)
>>
>> But on the other hand, you are not talking about driving a cadillac --
>> you
>> are talking about driving a horse-drawn carriage (win95) which almost no
>> one
>> uses any more, and the currently available operating systems are all so
>> much
>> more accessible, or have so many more hooks to work with screen reaaders,
>> that upgrading is really not only wise, but will soon become essential.
>>
>> Now I was a bit annoyed at having to buy a gsm cell phone with all kinds
>> of
>> features I didn't need, in order to have the menus speak. But I
>> encourage
>> software companies to develop such accessible software, even if I have to
>> spend a little to be a guinea pig.
>> Now that I've had a job -- at least long enough to have a little money to
>> spend experimenting on such things, I really have enjoyed getting
>> involved
>> in the troubleshooting, and if it eventually filters down to the less
>> expensive phones and systems, all the better.
>> (But it was really a very overpriced phone!<frown>)
>>
>> Take care, and try copying your data and upgrading your operating system.
>> Take care!
>> --le
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "david poehlman" <
>> david.poehlman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>
>> To: <
>> guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>
>> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 2:38 PM
>> Subject: [guispeak] Re: Fw: online internet learning session (fwd)
>>
>>> It is a fact that 70 percent of blind people are unemployed or at least
>>> under employed so Accessibility includes a multiplicity of things in
>>> this
>>> instance, such as:
>>> Can I access it with my ancient computer? Can I aford to get on the
>>> internet to access it? Can I access it without a sound card and get
>>> benefit
>>> out of it? I'm afraid that w eneed to think hard when we say that
>>> something
>>> is accessible. Saying that asking too much is offputting is doging the
>>> issue. There are degrees of accessibility so if you announce something,
>>> it
>>> is best o say that there is this thang a happenin' and if ya wanna
>>> partake
>>> of it, ya gotta be able to drive a cadelak.
>>>
>>> Johnnie Apple Seed
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Darrell Shandrow" <
>> nu7i@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>
>>> To: <
>> guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>
>>> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 2:26 PM
>>> Subject: [guispeak] Re: Fw: online internet learning session (fwd)
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Will,
>>>
>>> But that's simply a matter of meeting the application's system
>>> requirements.
>>> Certainly, from a blindness or even a disabilities point of view, this
>>> has
>>> nothing to do with the application's accessibility. All that concerns
>>> me
>>> is, well, can I use the application as a person with a disability, so
>>> long
>>> as I otherwise can meet the mainstream system requirements? By bringing
>>> in
>>> other things that aren't directly relevant to accessibility for users
>>> with
>>> disabilities, we run the risk of turning mainstream developers off our
>>> pleas
>>> for greater accessibility for our needs. Let's only ask for what's
>>> absolutely required.
>>>
>>> Besides, Windows 95 is very old now... Time for folks to upgrade.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Darrell Shandrow - Shandrow Communications!
>>> Technology consultant/instructor, network/systems administrator!
>>> A+, CCNA, Network+!
>>> Check out high quality telecommunications services at
>> http://ld.net/?nu7i
>>>
>> All the best to coalition forces carrying out Operation Iraqi Freedom!
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Will Pearson" <
>> will-pearson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>
>>> To: <
>> guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>
>>> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 12:16 PM
>>> Subject: [guispeak] Re: Fw: online internet learning session (fwd)
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi;
>>>>
>>>> It is an accessibility issue in the pure sense of accessibility.
>>>> Accessibility is a measure of whether someone can do something, and
>>>> this
>>>> regards whether the application in question can be accessed by those
>>>> running
>>>> operating systems that the application did not target during it's SDLC.
>>>>
>>>> Will
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Darrell Shandrow" <
>> nu7i@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>
>>>> To: <
>> guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 7:09 PM
>>>> Subject: [guispeak] Re: Fw: online internet learning session (fwd)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hi David,
>>>>>
>>>>> Probably not, but that is an OS compatibility issue, not one of
>>>>> accessibility. We need to keep these issues well separated.
>>>>>
>>>>> Darrell Shandrow - Shandrow Communications!
>>>>> Technology consultant/instructor, network/systems administrator!
>>>>> A+, CCNA, Network+!
>>>>> Check out high quality telecommunications services at
>>>>>
>> http://ld.net/?nu7i
>>>>>
>> All the best to coalition forces carrying out Operation Iraqi Freedom!
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "david poehlman" <
>> david.poehlman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>
>>>>> To: <
>> guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 11:25 AM
>>>>> Subject: [guispeak] Re: Fw: online internet learning session (fwd)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> > can I use windows.95?
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Johnnie Apple Seed
>>>>> >
>>>>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> > From: "Darrell Shandrow" <
>> nu7i@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>
>>>>> > To: <
>> guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>
>>>>> > Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 1:19 PM
>>>>> > Subject: [guispeak] Re: Fw: online internet learning session (fwd)
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Hi David,
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Looks reasonably accessible. What's wrong with it?
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Darrell Shandrow - Shandrow Communications!
>>>>> > Technology consultant/instructor, network/systems administrator!
>>>>> > A+, CCNA, Network+!
>>>>> > Check out high quality telecommunications services at
>>>>
>> http://ld.net/?nu7i
>>>>> >
>> All the best to coalition forces carrying out Operation Iraqi Freedom!
>>>>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> > From: "david poehlman" <
>> david.poehlman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>
>>>>> > To: <
>> guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>
>>>>> > Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 6:59 AM
>>>>> > Subject: [guispeak] Re: Fw: online internet learning session (fwd)
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >> too bad it's not accessible to most users.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Johnnie Apple Seed
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> >> From: "Andy Baracco" <
>> wq6r@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>
>>>>> >> To: <
>> guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>
>>>>> >> Cc: <
>> whoweare@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> ; <
>> acb-l@xxxxxxx>
>> ;
>>>> <
>> ccb-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>
>>>>> >> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 2:14 AM
>>>>> >> Subject: [guispeak] Fw: online internet learning session (fwd)
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>>>> >>>Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 16:43:45 -0500
>>>>> >>>From: Lynn Evans <
>> evans-lynn@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>
>>>>> >>>To:
>> VICUG-L@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> >>>
>> Subject: Fw: online internet learning session
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>Hello VICUG listers
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>If you or someone you know are interested in learning more about
>>>>> >>>the
>>>>> >>>power
>>>>> >>>of the internet please go to this link below.
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>Monday, November 15, beginning at 11:00 a.m. Eastern Daylight Time,
>>>> 10:00
>>>>> >>>Central, 9:00 Mountain, and 8:00 Pacific:
>>>>> >>>Introduction to the Internet, the Web, and iVocalize. Get an
>>>>> >>>overview
>>>> and
>>>>> >>>basic orientation to the power and richness of the Internet, the
>>>>> >>>World
>>>>> >>>Wide
>>>>> >>>Web, and iVocalize, the software program from Talking Communities
>>>>> >>>used
>>>>> >>>for
>>>>> >>>OPAL programs. Learn the basics of email, browsing, text chat,
>>>>> >>>voice-over-IP
>>>>> >>>conversations, searching, and information retrieval. Whether you
>>>>> >>>want
>>>> to
>>>>> >>>use
>>>>> >>>the Internet and the Web to learn, work, communicate, play, or all
>>>>> >>>of
>>>> the
>>>>> >>>above, this session will have something for you. Facilitated by Tom
>>>>> >>>Peters.
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>If the links above aren't active please use the link below:
>>>>> >>>http://www.opal-online.org/programs.htm
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>VICUG-L is the Visually Impaired Computer User Group List.
>>>>> >>>To join or leave the list, send a message to
>>>>> >>>listserv@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx In the body of the message, simply
>>>> type
>>>>> >>>"subscribe vicug-l" or "unsubscribe vicug-l" without the
>>>>> >>>quotations.
>>>>> >>> VICUG-L is archived on the World Wide Web at
>>>>> >>>http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/vicug-l.html
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
>>>>> >> ** [mailto:guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
>>>>> >> ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
>>>>> >> **
>> guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> >>
>> ** and in the Subject line type
>>>>> >> ** unsubscribe
>>>>> >> ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
>>>>> >> ** immediately-following link:-
>>>>> >> ** [mailto:guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
>>>>> >> ** or send a message, to
>>>>> >> **
>> guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> with the Subject:- faq
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
>>>>> >> ** [mailto:guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
>>>>> >> ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
>>>>> >> **
>> guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> >>
>> ** and in the Subject line type
>>>>> >> ** unsubscribe
>>>>> >> ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
>>>>> >> ** immediately-following link:-
>>>>> >> ** [mailto:guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
>>>>> >> ** or send a message, to
>>>>> >> **
>> guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> with the Subject:- faq
>>>>> >
>>>>> > ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
>>>>> > ** [mailto:guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
>>>>> > ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
>>>>> > **
>> guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> >
>> ** and in the Subject line type
>>>>> > ** unsubscribe
>>>>> > ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
>>>>> > ** immediately-following link:-
>>>>> > ** [mailto:guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
>>>>> > ** or send a message, to
>>>>> > **
>> guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> with the Subject:- faq
>>>>> >
>>>>> > ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
>>>>> > ** [mailto:guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
>>>>> > ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
>>>>> > **
>> guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> >
>> ** and in the Subject line type
>>>>> > ** unsubscribe
>>>>> > ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
>>>>> > ** immediately-following link:-
>>>>> > ** [mailto:guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
>>>>> > ** or send a message, to
>>>>> > **
>> guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> with the Subject:- faq
>>>>>
>>>>> ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
>>>>> ** [mailto:guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
>>>>> ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
>>>>> **
>> guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>
>> ** and in the Subject line type
>>>>> ** unsubscribe
>>>>> ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
>>>>> ** immediately-following link:-
>>>>> ** [mailto:guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
>>>>> ** or send a message, to
>>>>> **
>> guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> with the Subject:- faq
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
>>>> ** [mailto:guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
>>>> ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
>>>> **
>> guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>
>> ** and in the Subject line type
>>>> ** unsubscribe
>>>> ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
>>>> ** immediately-following link:-
>>>> ** [mailto:guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
>>>> ** or send a message, to
>>>> **
>> guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> with the Subject:- faq
>>>
>>> ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
>>> ** [mailto:guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
>>> ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
>>> **
>> guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>
>> ** and in the Subject line type
>>> ** unsubscribe
>>> ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
>>> ** immediately-following link:-
>>> ** [mailto:guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
>>> ** or send a message, to
>>> **
>> guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> with the Subject:- faq
>>>
>>> ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
>>> ** [mailto:guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
>>> ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
>>> **
>> guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>
>> ** and in the Subject line type
>>> ** unsubscribe
>>> ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
>>> ** immediately-following link:-
>>> ** [mailto:guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
>>> ** or send a message, to
>>> **
>> guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> with the Subject:- faq
>>
>> ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
>> ** [mailto:guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
>> ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
>> ** guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> ** and in the Subject line type
>> ** unsubscribe
>> ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
>> ** immediately-following link:-
>> ** [mailto:guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
>> ** or send a message, to
>> ** guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
>>
>> ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
>> ** [mailto:guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
>> ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
>> ** guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> ** and in the Subject line type
>> ** unsubscribe
>> ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
>> ** immediately-following link:-
>> ** [mailto:guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
>> ** or send a message, to
>> ** guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
>
> ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
> ** [mailto:guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
> ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
> ** guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> ** and in the Subject line type
> ** unsubscribe
> ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
> ** immediately-following link:-
> ** [mailto:guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
> ** or send a message, to
> ** guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
>
> ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
> ** [mailto:guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
> ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
> ** guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> ** and in the Subject line type
> ** unsubscribe
> ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
> ** immediately-following link:-
> ** [mailto:guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
> ** or send a message, to
> ** guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
** guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
** and in the Subject line type
** unsubscribe
** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
** immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
** or send a message, to
** guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
Other related posts:
