[guispeak] Re: here's the missing post...

  • From: "Flor Lynch" <florlync@xxxxxx>
  • To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 03:12:49 -0000

On one side, it does have to do with 'the lives of [my] blind brothers
and sisters' since the vast majority of them are for whatever reasons
unemployed and therefore financially constrained.  On the other, it is a
developmental issue with software upgrades and their having to go with
the flow.  We're also talking about a social and/or political divide,
ultimately.  Even among the blind, as with the rest of society, there
are some more disabled than
others.  But in summary, the blind in general are more
socially/culturally/economically disadvantaged than the 'able-bodied';
or most other recognised disabilities, or also the rest of society.
Whatever the market will bear, is the principal rule that operates in
societies driven by market economies.  Legislative measures can prevent
the worst excesses in them -
of inequality, disadvantage, discrimination, etc. - but not all of them.
Democracy may be considered to be  about what ideas and measures we
consider fair or unfair limitations of individual and group freedom.
Straying a little bit here, I consider the computer and all of its
associations to be a triumph of capitalism over its detractors, at least
for now.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Darrell Shandrow" <nu7i@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 10:37 PM
Subject: [guispeak] Re: here's the missing post...


Hi David,

Well, in your scenario below, I guess I'd just have to do without the
new
technology.  That's pretty simple.  If I work harder or do things
differently, I might be able to make some more money to get the newer
technology.  I just don't consider this to be a matter of accessibility.
Maybe it is one of those "digital divide" issues, but it has nothing to
do
with my mission of improving the lives of my blind brothers and sisters
through the implementation of proper accessibility.



Darrell Shandrow - Shandrow Communications!
Technology consultant/instructor, network/systems administrator!
A+, CCNA, Network+!
Check out high quality telecommunications services at
http://ld.net/?nu7i
All the best to coalition forces carrying out Operation Iraqi Freedom!
----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "david poehlman" <david.poehlman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 2:48 PM
Subject: [guispeak] Re: here's the missing post...


> So darrell,
>
> What would you do if you were the father of 6 and had a min9imum wage
job
> and your wife was ill and you had this old pc that ran windows.95 or
dos
> or
> maybe you decided you would put linux on it because all the stuff was
free
> and along came this fantastic new technology that you couldn't get?  I
> don't
> think we have a back ward compatibility issue here, we have an
> accessibility
> issue here that is a result of lack of backward compatibility.
>
> Johnnie Apple Seed
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Darrell Shandrow" <nu7i@xxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 4:34 PM
> Subject: [guispeak] Re: here's the missing post...
>
>
> Hi Laura,
>
> Yes.  It is all a matter of reasonability rather than accessibility
when
> we're talking about backward compatibility.  I feel it is important
that
> we
> make a differentiation here.  Technology advances and there's just no
way
> around that.  We're all in big trouble if we're going to associate a
> desire
> for backward compatibility with the need for accessibility for people
with
> disabilities.
>
> Darrell Shandrow - Shandrow Communications!
> Technology consultant/instructor, network/systems administrator!
> A+, CCNA, Network+!
> Check out high quality telecommunications services at
http://ld.net/?nu7i
> All the best to coalition forces carrying out Operation Iraqi Freedom!
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Laura Eaves" <leaves1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: "guispeak" <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 2:29 PM
> Subject: [guispeak] here's the missing post...
>
>
>> Hi Dave and all -- here is the post that never came back to me.  Not
that
>> it
>> is such an important and earth-shattering post, but I do want my
posts to
>> get through...
>>
>> Anyway, here it is:
>>
>> Hi Dave --
>> Well that's true to an extent, if there are several choices of
something
>> available to the general public, but only the most expensive is
>> accessible
>> to blind.  (I ran into this even with something as unrelated as a
sewing
>> machine -- the only accessible one was top-of-the-line, which my Mom
>> bought,
>> but I felt awful having her pay that much.)
>>
>> But on the other hand, you are not talking about driving a
cadillac -- 
>> you
>> are talking about driving a horse-drawn carriage (win95) which almost
no
>> one
>> uses any more, and the currently available operating systems are all
so
>> much
>> more accessible, or have so many more hooks to work with screen
reaaders,
>> that upgrading is really not only wise, but will soon become
essential.
>>
>> Now I was a bit annoyed at having to buy a gsm cell phone with all
kinds
>> of
>> features I didn't need, in order to have the menus speak.  But I
>> encourage
>> software companies to develop such accessible software, even if I
have to
>> spend a little to be a guinea pig.
>> Now that I've had a job -- at least long enough to have a little
money to
>> spend experimenting on such things, I really have enjoyed getting
>> involved
>> in the troubleshooting, and if it eventually filters down to the less
>> expensive phones and systems, all the better.
>> (But it was really a very overpriced phone!<frown>)
>>
>> Take care, and try copying your data and upgrading your operating
system.
>> Take care!
>> --le
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "david poehlman" <
>> david.poehlman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>
>> To: <
>> guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>
>> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 2:38 PM
>> Subject: [guispeak] Re: Fw: online internet learning session (fwd)
>>
>>> It is a fact that 70 percent of blind people are unemployed or at
least
>>> under employed so Accessibility includes a multiplicity of things in
>>> this
>>> instance, such as:
>>> Can I access it with my ancient computer?  Can I aford to get on the
>>> internet to access it?  Can I access it without a sound card and get
>>> benefit
>>> out of it?  I'm afraid that w eneed to think hard when we say that
>>> something
>>> is accessible.  Saying that asking too much is offputting is doging
the
>>> issue.  There are degrees of accessibility so if you announce
something,
>>> it
>>> is best o say that there is this thang a happenin' and if ya wanna
>>> partake
>>> of it, ya gotta be able to drive a cadelak.
>>>
>>> Johnnie Apple Seed
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Darrell Shandrow" <
>> nu7i@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>
>>> To: <
>> guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>
>>> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 2:26 PM
>>> Subject: [guispeak] Re: Fw: online internet learning session (fwd)
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Will,
>>>
>>> But that's simply a matter of meeting the application's system
>>> requirements.
>>> Certainly, from a blindness or even a disabilities point of view,
this
>>> has
>>> nothing to do with the application's accessibility.  All that
concerns
>>> me
>>> is, well, can I use the application as a person with a disability,
so
>>> long
>>> as I otherwise can meet the mainstream system requirements?  By
bringing
>>> in
>>> other things that aren't directly relevant to accessibility for
users
>>> with
>>> disabilities, we run the risk of turning mainstream developers off
our
>>> pleas
>>> for greater accessibility for our needs.  Let's only ask for what's
>>> absolutely required.
>>>
>>> Besides, Windows 95 is very old now...  Time for folks to upgrade.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Darrell Shandrow - Shandrow Communications!
>>> Technology consultant/instructor, network/systems administrator!
>>> A+, CCNA, Network+!
>>> Check out high quality telecommunications services at
>> http://ld.net/?nu7i
>>>
>> All the best to coalition forces carrying out Operation Iraqi
Freedom!
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Will Pearson" <
>> will-pearson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>
>>> To: <
>> guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>
>>> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 12:16 PM
>>> Subject: [guispeak] Re: Fw: online internet learning session (fwd)
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi;
>>>>
>>>> It is an accessibility issue in the pure sense of accessibility.
>>>> Accessibility is a measure of whether someone can do something, and
>>>> this
>>>> regards whether the application in question can be accessed by
those
>>>> running
>>>> operating systems that the application did not target during it's
SDLC.
>>>>
>>>> Will
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Darrell Shandrow" <
>> nu7i@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>
>>>> To: <
>> guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 7:09 PM
>>>> Subject: [guispeak] Re: Fw: online internet learning session (fwd)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hi David,
>>>>>
>>>>> Probably not, but that is an OS compatibility issue, not one of
>>>>> accessibility.  We need to keep these issues well separated.
>>>>>
>>>>> Darrell Shandrow - Shandrow Communications!
>>>>> Technology consultant/instructor, network/systems administrator!
>>>>> A+, CCNA, Network+!
>>>>> Check out high quality telecommunications services at
>>>>>
>> http://ld.net/?nu7i
>>>>>
>> All the best to coalition forces carrying out Operation Iraqi
Freedom!
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "david poehlman" <
>> david.poehlman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>
>>>>> To: <
>> guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 11:25 AM
>>>>> Subject: [guispeak] Re: Fw: online internet learning session (fwd)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> > can I use windows.95?
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Johnnie Apple Seed
>>>>> >
>>>>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> > From: "Darrell Shandrow" <
>> nu7i@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>
>>>>> > To: <
>> guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>
>>>>> > Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 1:19 PM
>>>>> > Subject: [guispeak] Re: Fw: online internet learning session
(fwd)
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Hi David,
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Looks reasonably accessible.  What's wrong with it?
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Darrell Shandrow - Shandrow Communications!
>>>>> > Technology consultant/instructor, network/systems administrator!
>>>>> > A+, CCNA, Network+!
>>>>> > Check out high quality telecommunications services at
>>>>
>> http://ld.net/?nu7i
>>>>> >
>> All the best to coalition forces carrying out Operation Iraqi
Freedom!
>>>>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> > From: "david poehlman" <
>> david.poehlman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>
>>>>> > To: <
>> guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>
>>>>> > Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 6:59 AM
>>>>> > Subject: [guispeak] Re: Fw: online internet learning session
(fwd)
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >> too bad it's not accessible to most users.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Johnnie Apple Seed
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> >> From: "Andy Baracco" <
>> wq6r@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>
>>>>> >> To: <
>> guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>
>>>>> >> Cc: <
>> whoweare@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> ; <
>> acb-l@xxxxxxx>
>> ;
>>>> <
>> ccb-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>
>>>>> >> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 2:14 AM
>>>>> >> Subject: [guispeak] Fw: online internet learning session (fwd)
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>>>> >>>Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 16:43:45 -0500
>>>>> >>>From: Lynn Evans <
>> evans-lynn@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>
>>>>> >>>To:
>> VICUG-L@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> >>>
>> Subject: Fw: online internet learning session
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>Hello VICUG listers
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>If you or someone you know are interested  in learning more
about
>>>>> >>>the
>>>>> >>>power
>>>>> >>>of the internet please go to this link below.
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>Monday, November 15, beginning at 11:00 a.m. Eastern Daylight
Time,
>>>> 10:00
>>>>> >>>Central, 9:00 Mountain, and 8:00 Pacific:
>>>>> >>>Introduction to the Internet, the Web, and iVocalize. Get an
>>>>> >>>overview
>>>> and
>>>>> >>>basic orientation to the power and richness of the Internet,
the
>>>>> >>>World
>>>>> >>>Wide
>>>>> >>>Web, and iVocalize, the software program from Talking
Communities
>>>>> >>>used
>>>>> >>>for
>>>>> >>>OPAL programs. Learn the basics of email, browsing, text chat,
>>>>> >>>voice-over-IP
>>>>> >>>conversations, searching, and information retrieval. Whether
you
>>>>> >>>want
>>>> to
>>>>> >>>use
>>>>> >>>the Internet and the Web to learn, work, communicate, play, or
all
>>>>> >>>of
>>>> the
>>>>> >>>above, this session will have something for you. Facilitated by
Tom
>>>>> >>>Peters.
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>If the links above aren't active please use the link below:
>>>>> >>>http://www.opal-online.org/programs.htm
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>VICUG-L is the Visually Impaired Computer User Group List.
>>>>> >>>To join or leave the list, send a message to
>>>>> >>>listserv@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx  In the body of the message,
simply
>>>> type
>>>>> >>>"subscribe vicug-l" or "unsubscribe vicug-l" without the
>>>>> >>>quotations.
>>>>> >>>  VICUG-L is archived on the World Wide Web at
>>>>> >>>http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/vicug-l.html
>>>>> >>
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