[guispeak] Re: here's the missing post...
- From: "Paul Hutson" <pjhutson@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 17:01:38 -0800
EXCELLENT post, Le! I could not have said that better myself.
Thanks!!
Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: "Laura Eaves" <leaves1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 3:54 PM
Subject: [guispeak] Re: here's the missing post...
> Well, actually, at some point it is really necessary for a person, blind
or
> not, to be on his/her own.
> I know the agenda of the Republican party (which I'm not wholly dedicated
> to, but do agree with some of their platform) that with the ADA,
employers
> are required to make reasonable adaptations to handicapped employees and
not
> discriminate in hiring -- and that being given, a blind person can
> (supposedly) get a job and work his way up and buy his own computer.
> Now providing everything -- education and equipment -- to all disabled
> persons free is actually not bad to a point, but I got my education and
job
> and worked a few years before the ADA and think that, people being the way
> they sometimes are, can take advantage of things that are better done by
> themselves, expecting the slack to always be picked up by the government.
> This is fiscally irresponsible on the government's part and also unwise
for
> a disabled person -- but again, I personally also have more than blindness
> as a disability, use a wheelchair, and so I have been glad for the support
I
> have received over the years when I've needed to use it. Also, a person
> can't be judged capable of doing something by an outsider -- only that
> person himself or his family (if it's a supportive family) and close
friends
> and counselors. For one thing, one of my disabilities is that my bones
> fractures extremely easily. Now I used to think that old movie "Heidi",
in
> which a disabled girl was made to walk when she said she couldn't, because
> the doc said there was nothing wrong with her. Now if someone had come
and
> tried to force me to walk, even though I'm not paralyzed, I knew it would
be
> a disaster, and so I always had to avoid this type of misjudgement. The
> same for having just partial vision -- people think you see more...
>
> But I think there needs to be a balance between giving people a hand-up
and
> a hand-out.
> Don't always wait for Uncle Sam to buy something that you think you can
get
> free if you have enough to get it yourself.
>
> I am indeed sorry if I am sounding like I'm passing judgement on anyone in
> particular. Again, it's a case by case thing, and there needs to be
> balance.
> Eventually a person needs to quit vouchering and start being totally if
not
> mostly independent, and the sooner a person gets in the habit of thinking
> that way, the better off in the long run he will be.
>
> But finding that balance in a changing world is really a problem.
> Technology is available now that makes some things that used be disabling
no
> longer much of a problem, but the world has also changed and continues to
> change.
>
> I suppose I'll get flames.
> But I am open for opinions.
>
> Also, as for baby boomers, my mother is older than the baby boomers, in
fact
> she is 80, but she did not hesitate to get a PC when they first came
out --
> after she was a senior citizen -- and learned to use it, and in fact made
> all of us promise that if she should ever be put in a nursing home, she
will
> always have her computer in the corner... She has used it to publish
> newsletters, do genealogical research, and a lot of correspondence and
other
> things that she couldn't do before she got it, and that made her anxious
to
> learn it.
> Take care!
> --le
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <ptusing@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 6:15 PM
> Subject: [guispeak] Re: here's the missing post...
>
>
> > HI,
> > The original post is correct. Baby Boomer peoplew ho become blind in
the
> > main end up not only buying their own computers--hopefully buying what
> > they
> > need for the long term--but there is no training.
> > this means years of learning the hard and also slow way.
> > And then the push is on to toss disabled off assistance programs per
> > Social
> > Security reform which means that group who socked out its money and had
> > to
> > hire people to teach them are hit a third time.
> > One in my state needs an imminent job.
> > Of course the state make no differentiation for blindness or the time
> > one
> > needs to get up to speed to do that job.
> > A blind p erson can go and buy some manual and read it visually. that
is
> > the rationale behind prviding a computer just before the imminent job.
> > For get about the idea that employers want peoplewith the skill set
> > already
> > learned.
> > It is a real problem.
> > Even ifthe state will help you, the mandate is that the state must buy
the
> > absolute cheapest computer out there--one that a sighted person can
> > use--meaning most blind do not qualify--even ifthe computer they buy has
> > the
> > wrong microprocessor and will barely support the robust needs of screen
> > readers etc.
> > One can find oneself on one's own p darn quick.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "david poehlman" <david.poehlman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 5:31 PM
> > Subject: [guispeak] Re: here's the missing post...
> >
> >
> >> le,
> >>
> >> I wish it were true. You have to either be accepted into school or in
a
> >> situation that rehab feels it is appropriate to give you technology
for.
> >> You don't just get a pc because you need one for your daily activities.
> > If
> >> I needed a pc today, I could not get one.
> >>
> >> Johnnie Apple Seed
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Laura Eaves" <leaves1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 5:20 PM
> >> Subject: [guispeak] Re: here's the missing post...
> >>
> >>
> >> Hi Dave -- well, a person might be able to get a grant for a new
> >> computer.
> >> But in the case of accessibility, if the person or one of his family
had
> >> a
> >> disability that required a new technology, the government would
> >> definitely
> >> pay for it in this case.
> >> It is always true that no matter what society or government you have,
the
> >> richer people are going to have more access than poorer. That's sad
but
> > it
> >> is unavoidable. But if the lack of that technology holds a person
back,
> >> either from accessibility for a handicap, or just getting a job or an
> >> education, then I think the argument can be made that he/she has a case
> > and
> >> can get equipment purchased by the gov, or is that not true?
> >> Take care!
> >> --le
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "david poehlman" <david.poehlman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 4:48 PM
> >> Subject: [guispeak] Re: here's the missing post...
> >>
> >>
> >> > So darrell,
> >> >
> >> > What would you do if you were the father of 6 and had a min9imum wage
> > job
> >> > and your wife was ill and you had this old pc that ran windows.95 or
> >> > dos
> >> > or
> >> > maybe you decided you would put linux on it because all the stuff was
> > free
> >> > and along came this fantastic new technology that you couldn't get?
I
> >> > don't
> >> > think we have a back ward compatibility issue here, we have an
> >> > accessibility
> >> > issue here that is a result of lack of backward compatibility.
> >> >
> >> > Johnnie Apple Seed
> >> >
> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > From: "Darrell Shandrow" <nu7i@xxxxxxxxxx>
> >> > To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> > Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 4:34 PM
> >> > Subject: [guispeak] Re: here's the missing post...
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Hi Laura,
> >> >
> >> > Yes. It is all a matter of reasonability rather than accessibility
> >> > when
> >> > we're talking about backward compatibility. I feel it is important
> >> > that
> >> > we
> >> > make a differentiation here. Technology advances and there's just no
> > way
> >> > around that. We're all in big trouble if we're going to associate a
> >> > desire
> >> > for backward compatibility with the need for accessibility for people
> > with
> >> > disabilities.
> >> >
> >> > Darrell Shandrow - Shandrow Communications!
> >> > Technology consultant/instructor, network/systems administrator!
> >> > A+, CCNA, Network+!
> >> > Check out high quality telecommunications services at
> > http://ld.net/?nu7i
> >> > All the best to coalition forces carrying out Operation Iraqi
Freedom!
> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > From: "Laura Eaves" <leaves1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> > To: "guispeak" <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> > Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 2:29 PM
> >> > Subject: [guispeak] here's the missing post...
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> Hi Dave and all -- here is the post that never came back to me. Not
> > that
> >> >> it
> >> >> is such an important and earth-shattering post, but I do want my
posts
> > to
> >> >> get through...
> >> >>
> >> >> Anyway, here it is:
> >> >>
> >> >> Hi Dave --
> >> >> Well that's true to an extent, if there are several choices of
> > something
> >> >> available to the general public, but only the most expensive is
> >> >> accessible
> >> >> to blind. (I ran into this even with something as unrelated as a
> > sewing
> >> >> machine -- the only accessible one was top-of-the-line, which my Mom
> >> >> bought,
> >> >> but I felt awful having her pay that much.)
> >> >>
> >> >> But on the other hand, you are not talking about driving a
cadillac --
> >> >> you
> >> >> are talking about driving a horse-drawn carriage (win95) which
almost
> > no
> >> >> one
> >> >> uses any more, and the currently available operating systems are all
> >> >> so
> >> >> much
> >> >> more accessible, or have so many more hooks to work with screen
> > reaaders,
> >> >> that upgrading is really not only wise, but will soon become
> >> >> essential.
> >> >>
> >> >> Now I was a bit annoyed at having to buy a gsm cell phone with all
> > kinds
> >> >> of
> >> >> features I didn't need, in order to have the menus speak. But I
> >> >> encourage
> >> >> software companies to develop such accessible software, even if I
have
> > to
> >> >> spend a little to be a guinea pig.
> >> >> Now that I've had a job -- at least long enough to have a little
money
> > to
> >> >> spend experimenting on such things, I really have enjoyed getting
> >> >> involved
> >> >> in the troubleshooting, and if it eventually filters down to the
less
> >> >> expensive phones and systems, all the better.
> >> >> (But it was really a very overpriced phone!<frown>)
> >> >>
> >> >> Take care, and try copying your data and upgrading your operating
> > system.
> >> >> Take care!
> >> >> --le
> >> >>
> >> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> >> From: "david poehlman" <
> >> >> david.poehlman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >>
> >> >> To: <
> >> >> guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >>
> >> >> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 2:38 PM
> >> >> Subject: [guispeak] Re: Fw: online internet learning session (fwd)
> >> >>
> >> >>> It is a fact that 70 percent of blind people are unemployed or at
> > least
> >> >>> under employed so Accessibility includes a multiplicity of things
in
> >> >>> this
> >> >>> instance, such as:
> >> >>> Can I access it with my ancient computer? Can I aford to get on
the
> >> >>> internet to access it? Can I access it without a sound card and
get
> >> >>> benefit
> >> >>> out of it? I'm afraid that w eneed to think hard when we say that
> >> >>> something
> >> >>> is accessible. Saying that asking too much is offputting is doging
> > the
> >> >>> issue. There are degrees of accessibility so if you announce
> > something,
> >> >>> it
> >> >>> is best o say that there is this thang a happenin' and if ya wanna
> >> >>> partake
> >> >>> of it, ya gotta be able to drive a cadelak.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Johnnie Apple Seed
> >> >>>
> >> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >> >>> From: "Darrell Shandrow" <
> >> >> nu7i@xxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >>
> >> >>> To: <
> >> >> guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >>
> >> >>> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 2:26 PM
> >> >>> Subject: [guispeak] Re: Fw: online internet learning session (fwd)
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Hi Will,
> >> >>>
> >> >>> But that's simply a matter of meeting the application's system
> >> >>> requirements.
> >> >>> Certainly, from a blindness or even a disabilities point of view,
> >> >>> this
> >> >>> has
> >> >>> nothing to do with the application's accessibility. All that
> >> >>> concerns
> >> >>> me
> >> >>> is, well, can I use the application as a person with a disability,
so
> >> >>> long
> >> >>> as I otherwise can meet the mainstream system requirements? By
> > bringing
> >> >>> in
> >> >>> other things that aren't directly relevant to accessibility for
users
> >> >>> with
> >> >>> disabilities, we run the risk of turning mainstream developers off
> >> >>> our
> >> >>> pleas
> >> >>> for greater accessibility for our needs. Let's only ask for what's
> >> >>> absolutely required.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Besides, Windows 95 is very old now... Time for folks to upgrade.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Darrell Shandrow - Shandrow Communications!
> >> >>> Technology consultant/instructor, network/systems administrator!
> >> >>> A+, CCNA, Network+!
> >> >>> Check out high quality telecommunications services at
> >> >> http://ld.net/?nu7i
> >> >>>
> >> >> All the best to coalition forces carrying out Operation Iraqi
Freedom!
> >> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >> >>> From: "Will Pearson" <
> >> >> will-pearson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >>
> >> >>> To: <
> >> >> guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >>
> >> >>> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 12:16 PM
> >> >>> Subject: [guispeak] Re: Fw: online internet learning session (fwd)
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>> Hi;
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> It is an accessibility issue in the pure sense of accessibility.
> >> >>>> Accessibility is a measure of whether someone can do something,
and
> >> >>>> this
> >> >>>> regards whether the application in question can be accessed by
those
> >> >>>> running
> >> >>>> operating systems that the application did not target during it's
> > SDLC.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Will
> >> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >> >>>> From: "Darrell Shandrow" <
> >> >> nu7i@xxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >>
> >> >>>> To: <
> >> >> guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >>
> >> >>>> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 7:09 PM
> >> >>>> Subject: [guispeak] Re: Fw: online internet learning session (fwd)
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>> Hi David,
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> Probably not, but that is an OS compatibility issue, not one of
> >> >>>>> accessibility. We need to keep these issues well separated.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> Darrell Shandrow - Shandrow Communications!
> >> >>>>> Technology consultant/instructor, network/systems administrator!
> >> >>>>> A+, CCNA, Network+!
> >> >>>>> Check out high quality telecommunications services at
> >> >>>>>
> >> >> http://ld.net/?nu7i
> >> >>>>>
> >> >> All the best to coalition forces carrying out Operation Iraqi
Freedom!
> >> >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >> >>>>> From: "david poehlman" <
> >> >> david.poehlman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >>
> >> >>>>> To: <
> >> >> guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >>
> >> >>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 11:25 AM
> >> >>>>> Subject: [guispeak] Re: Fw: online internet learning session
(fwd)
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> > can I use windows.95?
> >> >>>>> >
> >> >>>>> > Johnnie Apple Seed
> >> >>>>> >
> >> >>>>> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> >>>>> > From: "Darrell Shandrow" <
> >> >> nu7i@xxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >>
> >> >>>>> > To: <
> >> >> guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >>
> >> >>>>> > Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 1:19 PM
> >> >>>>> > Subject: [guispeak] Re: Fw: online internet learning session
> >> >>>>> > (fwd)
> >> >>>>> >
> >> >>>>> >
> >> >>>>> > Hi David,
> >> >>>>> >
> >> >>>>> > Looks reasonably accessible. What's wrong with it?
> >> >>>>> >
> >> >>>>> > Darrell Shandrow - Shandrow Communications!
> >> >>>>> > Technology consultant/instructor, network/systems
administrator!
> >> >>>>> > A+, CCNA, Network+!
> >> >>>>> > Check out high quality telecommunications services at
> >> >>>>
> >> >> http://ld.net/?nu7i
> >> >>>>> >
> >> >> All the best to coalition forces carrying out Operation Iraqi
Freedom!
> >> >>>>> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> >>>>> > From: "david poehlman" <
> >> >> david.poehlman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >>
> >> >>>>> > To: <
> >> >> guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >>
> >> >>>>> > Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 6:59 AM
> >> >>>>> > Subject: [guispeak] Re: Fw: online internet learning session
> >> >>>>> > (fwd)
> >> >>>>> >
> >> >>>>> >
> >> >>>>> >> too bad it's not accessible to most users.
> >> >>>>> >>
> >> >>>>> >> Johnnie Apple Seed
> >> >>>>> >>
> >> >>>>> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> >>>>> >> From: "Andy Baracco" <
> >> >> wq6r@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >>
> >> >>>>> >> To: <
> >> >> guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >>
> >> >>>>> >> Cc: <
> >> >> whoweare@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >> ; <
> >> >> acb-l@xxxxxxx>
> >> >> ;
> >> >>>> <
> >> >> ccb-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >>
> >> >>>>> >> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 2:14 AM
> >> >>>>> >> Subject: [guispeak] Fw: online internet learning session (fwd)
> >> >>>>> >>
> >> >>>>> >>
> >> >>>>> >>
> >> >>>>> >>>
> >> >>>>> >>>---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >> >>>>> >>>Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 16:43:45 -0500
> >> >>>>> >>>From: Lynn Evans <
> >> >> evans-lynn@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >>
> >> >>>>> >>>To:
> >> >> VICUG-L@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >>>>> >>>
> >> >> Subject: Fw: online internet learning session
> >> >>>>> >>>
> >> >>>>> >>>Hello VICUG listers
> >> >>>>> >>>
> >> >>>>> >>>If you or someone you know are interested in learning more
> >> >>>>> >>>about
> >> >>>>> >>>the
> >> >>>>> >>>power
> >> >>>>> >>>of the internet please go to this link below.
> >> >>>>> >>>
> >> >>>>> >>>
> >> >>>>> >>>Monday, November 15, beginning at 11:00 a.m. Eastern Daylight
> > Time,
> >> >>>> 10:00
> >> >>>>> >>>Central, 9:00 Mountain, and 8:00 Pacific:
> >> >>>>> >>>Introduction to the Internet, the Web, and iVocalize. Get an
> >> >>>>> >>>overview
> >> >>>> and
> >> >>>>> >>>basic orientation to the power and richness of the Internet,
the
> >> >>>>> >>>World
> >> >>>>> >>>Wide
> >> >>>>> >>>Web, and iVocalize, the software program from Talking
> >> >>>>> >>>Communities
> >> >>>>> >>>used
> >> >>>>> >>>for
> >> >>>>> >>>OPAL programs. Learn the basics of email, browsing, text chat,
> >> >>>>> >>>voice-over-IP
> >> >>>>> >>>conversations, searching, and information retrieval. Whether
you
> >> >>>>> >>>want
> >> >>>> to
> >> >>>>> >>>use
> >> >>>>> >>>the Internet and the Web to learn, work, communicate, play, or
> > all
> >> >>>>> >>>of
> >> >>>> the
> >> >>>>> >>>above, this session will have something for you. Facilitated
by
> > Tom
> >> >>>>> >>>Peters.
> >> >>>>> >>>
> >> >>>>> >>>If the links above aren't active please use the link below:
> >> >>>>> >>>http://www.opal-online.org/programs.htm
> >> >>>>> >>>
> >> >>>>> >>>
> >> >>>>> >>>VICUG-L is the Visually Impaired Computer User Group List.
> >> >>>>> >>>To join or leave the list, send a message to
> >> >>>>> >>>listserv@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx In the body of the message,
> > simply
> >> >>>> type
> >> >>>>> >>>"subscribe vicug-l" or "unsubscribe vicug-l" without the
> >> >>>>> >>>quotations.
> >> >>>>> >>> VICUG-L is archived on the World Wide Web at
> >> >>>>> >>>http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/vicug-l.html
> >> >>>>> >>
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> >> >>> ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
> >> >>> ** immediately-following link:-
> >> >>> ** [mailto:guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
> >> >>> ** or send a message, to
> >> >>> **
> >> >> guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >> with the Subject:- faq
> >> >>
> >> >> ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
> >> >> ** [mailto:guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
> >> >> ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
> >> >> ** guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >> ** and in the Subject line type
> >> >> ** unsubscribe
> >> >> ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
> >> >> ** immediately-following link:-
> >> >> ** [mailto:guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
> >> >> ** or send a message, to
> >> >> ** guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
> >> >
> >> > ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
> >> > ** [mailto:guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
> >> > ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
> >> > ** guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > ** and in the Subject line type
> >> > ** unsubscribe
> >> > ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
> >> > ** immediately-following link:-
> >> > ** [mailto:guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
> >> > ** or send a message, to
> >> > ** guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
> >> >
> >> > ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
> >> > ** [mailto:guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
> >> > ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
> >> > ** guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > ** and in the Subject line type
> >> > ** unsubscribe
> >> > ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
> >> > ** immediately-following link:-
> >> > ** [mailto:guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
> >> > ** or send a message, to
> >> > ** guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
> >>
> >> ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
> >> ** [mailto:guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
> >> ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
> >> ** guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> ** and in the Subject line type
> >> ** unsubscribe
> >> ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
> >> ** immediately-following link:-
> >> ** [mailto:guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
> >> ** or send a message, to
> >> ** guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
> >>
> >> ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
> >> ** [mailto:guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
> >> ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
> >> ** guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> ** and in the Subject line type
> >> ** unsubscribe
> >> ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
> >> ** immediately-following link:-
> >> ** [mailto:guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
> >> ** or send a message, to
> >> ** guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
> >
> > ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
> > ** [mailto:guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
> > ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
> > ** guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > ** and in the Subject line type
> > ** unsubscribe
> > ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
> > ** immediately-following link:-
> > ** [mailto:guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
> > ** or send a message, to
> > ** guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
>
> ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
> ** [mailto:guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
> ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
> ** guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> ** and in the Subject line type
> ** unsubscribe
> ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
> ** immediately-following link:-
> ** [mailto:guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
> ** or send a message, to
> ** guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
** guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
** and in the Subject line type
** unsubscribe
** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
** immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
** or send a message, to
** guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
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