[guispeak] Re: here's the missing post...
- From: "Laura Eaves" <leaves1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 20:39:17 -0500
Hi again --
Yes, it is truely a fact that some parts of the world are very poor, and
people within and outside those communities are by-and-large trying to take
steps to correct that.
I guess when you say they "can't afford a Pentium 1", I am reminded of the
fact that Pentium 1 machines are not just out of date, but also are becoming
more scarce, now that new software doesn't run on them.
(Or maybe I'm thinking of 386/486...)
But since they are more scarce, and maybe now used only for the purpose of
accessing old data via older programs, they are therefore also more
expensive than a newer machine. And if a community wanted to get a machine,
I'd think they could acquire a newer one as easily as an old one.
It's kind of sad, as far as disability goes, that sometimes disabled kids in
those countries have more opportunities open to them than able-bodied
persons, in that the able-bodied people are needed to do the physical work
whereas disabled kids are often sponsored to go to other countries for
treatment and education, or even a new home.
So a tragedy can strangely turn out to be a blessing for some, not all of
course.
Actually, on another list is a blind guy from a country at war that lost his
vision and got a visa to come to the US and get an education, and is now
battling through school and finding he is much better off than his family,
whom he is now battling to get out of there also and trying to get a good
job so he can send them money, even with his blindness.
Interesting how things work.
Anyway, take care.
--le
----- Original Message -----
From: "Will Pearson" <will-pearson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 8:06 PM
Subject: [guispeak] Re: here's the missing post...
> Hi Darrell;
>
> There's nothing to say you have the opportunity to work harder or get more
> money. People in the deepest parts of africa are lucky if they can afford
> a
> pentium 1 between an entire community.
>
> Will
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Darrell Shandrow" <nu7i@xxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 10:37 PM
> Subject: [guispeak] Re: here's the missing post...
>
>
>> Hi David,
>>
>> Well, in your scenario below, I guess I'd just have to do without the new
>> technology. That's pretty simple. If I work harder or do things
>> differently, I might be able to make some more money to get the newer
>> technology. I just don't consider this to be a matter of accessibility.
>> Maybe it is one of those "digital divide" issues, but it has nothing to
>> do
>> with my mission of improving the lives of my blind brothers and sisters
>> through the implementation of proper accessibility.
>>
>>
>>
>> Darrell Shandrow - Shandrow Communications!
>> Technology consultant/instructor, network/systems administrator!
>> A+, CCNA, Network+!
>> Check out high quality telecommunications services at http://ld.net/?nu7i
>> All the best to coalition forces carrying out Operation Iraqi Freedom!
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "david poehlman" <david.poehlman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 2:48 PM
>> Subject: [guispeak] Re: here's the missing post...
>>
>>
>> > So darrell,
>> >
>> > What would you do if you were the father of 6 and had a min9imum wage
> job
>> > and your wife was ill and you had this old pc that ran windows.95 or
>> > dos
>> > or
>> > maybe you decided you would put linux on it because all the stuff was
> free
>> > and along came this fantastic new technology that you couldn't get? I
>> > don't
>> > think we have a back ward compatibility issue here, we have an
>> > accessibility
>> > issue here that is a result of lack of backward compatibility.
>> >
>> > Johnnie Apple Seed
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Darrell Shandrow" <nu7i@xxxxxxxxxx>
>> > To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> > Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 4:34 PM
>> > Subject: [guispeak] Re: here's the missing post...
>> >
>> >
>> > Hi Laura,
>> >
>> > Yes. It is all a matter of reasonability rather than accessibility
>> > when
>> > we're talking about backward compatibility. I feel it is important
>> > that
>> > we
>> > make a differentiation here. Technology advances and there's just no
> way
>> > around that. We're all in big trouble if we're going to associate a
>> > desire
>> > for backward compatibility with the need for accessibility for people
> with
>> > disabilities.
>> >
>> > Darrell Shandrow - Shandrow Communications!
>> > Technology consultant/instructor, network/systems administrator!
>> > A+, CCNA, Network+!
>> > Check out high quality telecommunications services at
> http://ld.net/?nu7i
>> > All the best to coalition forces carrying out Operation Iraqi Freedom!
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Laura Eaves" <leaves1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> > To: "guispeak" <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> > Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 2:29 PM
>> > Subject: [guispeak] here's the missing post...
>> >
>> >
>> >> Hi Dave and all -- here is the post that never came back to me. Not
> that
>> >> it
>> >> is such an important and earth-shattering post, but I do want my posts
> to
>> >> get through...
>> >>
>> >> Anyway, here it is:
>> >>
>> >> Hi Dave --
>> >> Well that's true to an extent, if there are several choices of
> something
>> >> available to the general public, but only the most expensive is
>> >> accessible
>> >> to blind. (I ran into this even with something as unrelated as a
> sewing
>> >> machine -- the only accessible one was top-of-the-line, which my Mom
>> >> bought,
>> >> but I felt awful having her pay that much.)
>> >>
>> >> But on the other hand, you are not talking about driving a cadillac --
>> >> you
>> >> are talking about driving a horse-drawn carriage (win95) which almost
> no
>> >> one
>> >> uses any more, and the currently available operating systems are all
>> >> so
>> >> much
>> >> more accessible, or have so many more hooks to work with screen
> reaaders,
>> >> that upgrading is really not only wise, but will soon become
>> >> essential.
>> >>
>> >> Now I was a bit annoyed at having to buy a gsm cell phone with all
> kinds
>> >> of
>> >> features I didn't need, in order to have the menus speak. But I
>> >> encourage
>> >> software companies to develop such accessible software, even if I have
> to
>> >> spend a little to be a guinea pig.
>> >> Now that I've had a job -- at least long enough to have a little money
> to
>> >> spend experimenting on such things, I really have enjoyed getting
>> >> involved
>> >> in the troubleshooting, and if it eventually filters down to the less
>> >> expensive phones and systems, all the better.
>> >> (But it was really a very overpriced phone!<frown>)
>> >>
>> >> Take care, and try copying your data and upgrading your operating
> system.
>> >> Take care!
>> >> --le
>> >>
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: "david poehlman" <
>> >> david.poehlman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >>
>> >> To: <
>> >> guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >>
>> >> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 2:38 PM
>> >> Subject: [guispeak] Re: Fw: online internet learning session (fwd)
>> >>
>> >>> It is a fact that 70 percent of blind people are unemployed or at
> least
>> >>> under employed so Accessibility includes a multiplicity of things in
>> >>> this
>> >>> instance, such as:
>> >>> Can I access it with my ancient computer? Can I aford to get on the
>> >>> internet to access it? Can I access it without a sound card and get
>> >>> benefit
>> >>> out of it? I'm afraid that w eneed to think hard when we say that
>> >>> something
>> >>> is accessible. Saying that asking too much is offputting is doging
> the
>> >>> issue. There are degrees of accessibility so if you announce
> something,
>> >>> it
>> >>> is best o say that there is this thang a happenin' and if ya wanna
>> >>> partake
>> >>> of it, ya gotta be able to drive a cadelak.
>> >>>
>> >>> Johnnie Apple Seed
>> >>>
>> >>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>> From: "Darrell Shandrow" <
>> >> nu7i@xxxxxxxxxx>
>> >>
>> >>> To: <
>> >> guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >>
>> >>> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 2:26 PM
>> >>> Subject: [guispeak] Re: Fw: online internet learning session (fwd)
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Hi Will,
>> >>>
>> >>> But that's simply a matter of meeting the application's system
>> >>> requirements.
>> >>> Certainly, from a blindness or even a disabilities point of view,
>> >>> this
>> >>> has
>> >>> nothing to do with the application's accessibility. All that
>> >>> concerns
>> >>> me
>> >>> is, well, can I use the application as a person with a disability, so
>> >>> long
>> >>> as I otherwise can meet the mainstream system requirements? By
> bringing
>> >>> in
>> >>> other things that aren't directly relevant to accessibility for users
>> >>> with
>> >>> disabilities, we run the risk of turning mainstream developers off
>> >>> our
>> >>> pleas
>> >>> for greater accessibility for our needs. Let's only ask for what's
>> >>> absolutely required.
>> >>>
>> >>> Besides, Windows 95 is very old now... Time for folks to upgrade.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Darrell Shandrow - Shandrow Communications!
>> >>> Technology consultant/instructor, network/systems administrator!
>> >>> A+, CCNA, Network+!
>> >>> Check out high quality telecommunications services at
>> >> http://ld.net/?nu7i
>> >>>
>> >> All the best to coalition forces carrying out Operation Iraqi Freedom!
>> >>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>> From: "Will Pearson" <
>> >> will-pearson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >>
>> >>> To: <
>> >> guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >>
>> >>> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 12:16 PM
>> >>> Subject: [guispeak] Re: Fw: online internet learning session (fwd)
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>> Hi;
>> >>>>
>> >>>> It is an accessibility issue in the pure sense of accessibility.
>> >>>> Accessibility is a measure of whether someone can do something, and
>> >>>> this
>> >>>> regards whether the application in question can be accessed by those
>> >>>> running
>> >>>> operating systems that the application did not target during it's
> SDLC.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Will
>> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>>> From: "Darrell Shandrow" <
>> >> nu7i@xxxxxxxxxx>
>> >>
>> >>>> To: <
>> >> guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >>
>> >>>> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 7:09 PM
>> >>>> Subject: [guispeak] Re: Fw: online internet learning session (fwd)
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> Hi David,
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Probably not, but that is an OS compatibility issue, not one of
>> >>>>> accessibility. We need to keep these issues well separated.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Darrell Shandrow - Shandrow Communications!
>> >>>>> Technology consultant/instructor, network/systems administrator!
>> >>>>> A+, CCNA, Network+!
>> >>>>> Check out high quality telecommunications services at
>> >>>>>
>> >> http://ld.net/?nu7i
>> >>>>>
>> >> All the best to coalition forces carrying out Operation Iraqi Freedom!
>> >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>>>> From: "david poehlman" <
>> >> david.poehlman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >>
>> >>>>> To: <
>> >> guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >>
>> >>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 11:25 AM
>> >>>>> Subject: [guispeak] Re: Fw: online internet learning session (fwd)
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> > can I use windows.95?
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>> > Johnnie Apple Seed
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> >>>>> > From: "Darrell Shandrow" <
>> >> nu7i@xxxxxxxxxx>
>> >>
>> >>>>> > To: <
>> >> guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >>
>> >>>>> > Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 1:19 PM
>> >>>>> > Subject: [guispeak] Re: Fw: online internet learning session
>> >>>>> > (fwd)
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>> > Hi David,
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>> > Looks reasonably accessible. What's wrong with it?
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>> > Darrell Shandrow - Shandrow Communications!
>> >>>>> > Technology consultant/instructor, network/systems administrator!
>> >>>>> > A+, CCNA, Network+!
>> >>>>> > Check out high quality telecommunications services at
>> >>>>
>> >> http://ld.net/?nu7i
>> >>>>> >
>> >> All the best to coalition forces carrying out Operation Iraqi Freedom!
>> >>>>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> >>>>> > From: "david poehlman" <
>> >> david.poehlman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >>
>> >>>>> > To: <
>> >> guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >>
>> >>>>> > Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 6:59 AM
>> >>>>> > Subject: [guispeak] Re: Fw: online internet learning session
>> >>>>> > (fwd)
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>> >> too bad it's not accessible to most users.
>> >>>>> >>
>> >>>>> >> Johnnie Apple Seed
>> >>>>> >>
>> >>>>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>>>> >> From: "Andy Baracco" <
>> >> wq6r@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >>
>> >>>>> >> To: <
>> >> guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >>
>> >>>>> >> Cc: <
>> >> whoweare@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >> ; <
>> >> acb-l@xxxxxxx>
>> >> ;
>> >>>> <
>> >> ccb-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >>
>> >>>>> >> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 2:14 AM
>> >>>>> >> Subject: [guispeak] Fw: online internet learning session (fwd)
>> >>>>> >>
>> >>>>> >>
>> >>>>> >>
>> >>>>> >>>
>> >>>>> >>>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> >>>>> >>>Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 16:43:45 -0500
>> >>>>> >>>From: Lynn Evans <
>> >> evans-lynn@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >>
>> >>>>> >>>To:
>> >> VICUG-L@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >>>>> >>>
>> >> Subject: Fw: online internet learning session
>> >>>>> >>>
>> >>>>> >>>Hello VICUG listers
>> >>>>> >>>
>> >>>>> >>>If you or someone you know are interested in learning more
>> >>>>> >>>about
>> >>>>> >>>the
>> >>>>> >>>power
>> >>>>> >>>of the internet please go to this link below.
>> >>>>> >>>
>> >>>>> >>>
>> >>>>> >>>Monday, November 15, beginning at 11:00 a.m. Eastern Daylight
> Time,
>> >>>> 10:00
>> >>>>> >>>Central, 9:00 Mountain, and 8:00 Pacific:
>> >>>>> >>>Introduction to the Internet, the Web, and iVocalize. Get an
>> >>>>> >>>overview
>> >>>> and
>> >>>>> >>>basic orientation to the power and richness of the Internet, the
>> >>>>> >>>World
>> >>>>> >>>Wide
>> >>>>> >>>Web, and iVocalize, the software program from Talking
>> >>>>> >>>Communities
>> >>>>> >>>used
>> >>>>> >>>for
>> >>>>> >>>OPAL programs. Learn the basics of email, browsing, text chat,
>> >>>>> >>>voice-over-IP
>> >>>>> >>>conversations, searching, and information retrieval. Whether you
>> >>>>> >>>want
>> >>>> to
>> >>>>> >>>use
>> >>>>> >>>the Internet and the Web to learn, work, communicate, play, or
> all
>> >>>>> >>>of
>> >>>> the
>> >>>>> >>>above, this session will have something for you. Facilitated by
> Tom
>> >>>>> >>>Peters.
>> >>>>> >>>
>> >>>>> >>>If the links above aren't active please use the link below:
>> >>>>> >>>http://www.opal-online.org/programs.htm
>> >>>>> >>>
>> >>>>> >>>
>> >>>>> >>>VICUG-L is the Visually Impaired Computer User Group List.
>> >>>>> >>>To join or leave the list, send a message to
>> >>>>> >>>listserv@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx In the body of the message,
> simply
>> >>>> type
>> >>>>> >>>"subscribe vicug-l" or "unsubscribe vicug-l" without the
>> >>>>> >>>quotations.
>> >>>>> >>> VICUG-L is archived on the World Wide Web at
>> >>>>> >>>http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/vicug-l.html
>> >>>>> >>
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