Not sure about car parking in the land behind Wiseton, its one thing having
cars zooming about all day at the front of the house but at the back as well?
Not ideal from my point of view living on Newington, the land side of the
street.
Sally
----- Original Message -----
From: Gordon Ferguson
To: eccotalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Monday, April 01, 2019 10:17 AM
Subject: [eccotalk] Re: Botanical Gate Community Group meeting about parking
permits
Neighbours,
I agree that just imposing more and more rules solves nothing and just makes
people angry and therefore unreasonable. So as I see it, if you can afford to
run two cars, you can afford a high charge, and also if you can afford a
whopping great big car, you can afford to pay more, so both Alex's options are
useful. However, the fees need to be quite onerous - if you want to have lots
of big cars, perhaps you are living in the wrong place.
So I suggest a cost recovery fee for the first car if it is in the lowest
vehicle tax band, then rising very steeply for higher taxed cars and then even
more steeply for second and subsequent cars.
Another possible solution applicable to our area is to try (yet again) to
encourage the owner of the land between Newington and Wiseton Roads to allow
parking and even garages - which will have the added advantage of showing
people just how much parking could cost.
There is also an underlying philosophical problem here, called 'The Tragedy
of The Commons' : 'The tragedy of the commons is a term used in environmental
science to describe a situation in a shared-resource system where individual
users acting independently according to their own self-interest behave contrary
to the common good of all users by depleting or spoiling that resource through
their collective action.' This argument, however is used by those on the right
to justify the privatisation and monetisation of everything - the route which
parking fees is - albeit tentatively - going down. We could, though, recreate a
'commons' on our streets by encouraging car sharing, linked to a strict limit
of only enough permits for the actual space available, charged at cost recovery
only. Any takers?
Cheers,
Gordon
On 30/03/2019 12:12, Alexander Basran (Redacted sender a_basran for DMARC)
wrote:
Dear all,
I think this whole situation is very difficult. Clearly we want the council
to put in place as few restrictions of liberty as are necessary to achieve a
harmonious community for all. However I feel that restricting permit numbers to
one per house is unreasonable as many people (families, long distance commuters
etc) may practically need two cars. An alternative way to look at this might be
to look at inhabitants to vehicle ratio for each house when applying for
permits.
It would certainly be possible to reduce permit numbers by charging more in
a doubling pattern , for example first permit, £50, second permit £100, third
permit £200, 4th permit £400. This would have the advantage of not technically
restricting anyone (if someone is particularly keen for an extra permit) but
making, for example a second or third permit a much more thought provoking
exercise.
Another measure which I have seen in other places is to offer a reduced
rate eg £5 per year (just to cover costs) for cars of less than 3m in length.
This would have the effect of actually creating more spaces, if people were
persuaded by it. There are, however relatively few cars that would fulfil this
requirement.
Another potential measure would be to paint lines marking the spaces out on
the road. This would have the effect of 'lining people up' better and might
give a few extra spaces, although clearly this would negate any benefit
produced by people using shorter cars, as above.
Let the debate continue!
Best wishes,
Alexander
On 30 Mar 2019, at 10:40, Mike and Jan Andrews <botanic88@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Hi all
We went to the parking permit meeting on Wednesday. People are angry
because the Council sells more permits than there are spaces.
This situation might be improved by not selling three permits to any
house. But this would only reduce the permits by five, according to the figures
James gave us. The situation might also be improved by adding a few more spaces
somehow.
However we think these possibilities only scratch the surface. The only
way to really solve the problem would be for the Council to sell less 'second
car' permits.
How could the Council sell less 'second car' permits in a fair manner?
This question isn't easy to answer. We have tried and so far failed!
Regards
Mike and Jan
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: eccotalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <eccotalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> on
behalf of James Sutherland <info@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: 25 March 2019 20:20
To: eccotalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [eccotalk] Re: Botanical Gate Community Group meeting about
parking permits
Hi everyone
I’m sorry I can’t make the meeting this week regarding car parking around
the ECCO forum area due to a family birthday. I like most of us do worry (and
indeed stress) about the daily challenges each of us faces attempting to park
cars in resident spaces we have paid for.
Earlier this year I decided to contact Sheffield City Council to make a
freedom of information request which was quite enlightening…...
I requested to find out:
1. The Council’s estimate of the number of car parking spaces on the
roads of Rossington Road, Newington Road and Everton Road.
2. The total number of permits issued on the roads of Rossington Road,
Newington Road, Everton Road and numbers 78-92 Brocco Bank.
3. Number of properties issued 3 or more permits.
QUESTION 1:
"In relation to the estimation of the number of car parking spaces, the
Council’s Traffic Regulation Order System states the following lengths of bays:
Rossington Road 137m & 129m
Newington Road 122m & 99m
Everton Road 99m & 174m
TOTAL: 760m
The Council’s transport scheme design team uses an average length of 5.5m
when planning the amount of bays.”
Therefore, 760 Divided by 5.5 (average vehicle length) = 138 spaces
based on the Council’s own calculations.
QUESTION 2:
"In relation to the number of car parking permits issued the Council
reports the following number of resident permits have been issued:
Rossington Road 58
Newington Road 36
Everton Road 60
78 – 92 Brocco Bank 6"
TOTAL: 160 resident permits issued
QUESTION 3:
"No properties can be allocated more than 3 parking permits.
X3 properties on Rossington Road have 3 permits
X1 property of Newington Road has 3 permits
X1 property on Everton Road has 3 permits
No properties (78-92) Brocco Bank have 3 permits"
IN SUMMARY:
Based on the Council’s own figures and on the sample size requested it is
clear the council have over sold and over subscribed on resident parking
permits, granting approximately 22 permits more than there is physically space
for!!!
This is without considering the additional impact of the Brocco on the
Park hotel and restaurant which certainly on Rossington Road places additional
pressure on the parking permits. Ordinarily this would be a problem outside of
the parking restriction times, however, I have all too often seen people
attending the hotel/restaurant parking on Rossington Road with blatant
disregard to resident’s parking being in effect. I am supportive towards the
hotel for the positive image it portrays and this is by no means a criticism of
the staff and management of the hotel as this situation is beyond their control.
MY QUESTIONS/OBSERVATIONS:
1. Why is the resident’s parking restriction time limited to up until 6pm
when to attempt to manage the parking situation 24/7 restrictions are needed to
attempt to supply sufficient parking for the resident permits issued?
2. How do the Council plan to take action to more appropriately match the
number of allocated parking bays to the actual capacity?
3. Why do students receive a discount for resident parking permits? Many
students are resident in Sheffield for the bulk of the year and we do not offer
discounts on factors such as road tax, so why should parking be any different?
4. Given there is a clear oversubscription of parking spaces at this
time, would it be sensible for the non-residential parking spaces at the bottom
of Rossington Road and Newington Road to be converted into resident only
parking to attempt to manage the shortage of capacity that has been created by
the Council issuing too many resident permits?
Once again, sorry I am unable to make the meeting and also for the length
of this email but hopefully the information may be of use and also makes
interesting reading for those of us frustrated with struggles to find car
parking spaces at times.
Kind regards
James
James Sutherland
Director
84 Brocco Bank Sheffield S11 8RS
W: muybien.co.uk E: info@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
M: 07740 339 424 T: @muybienuk
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On 13 Mar 2019, at 19:42, Gwen Wilson <wilsongw123@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I intend to attend.
Gwen
On Wed, Mar 13, 2019 at 1:31 PM Mike and Jan Andrews
<botanic88@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hi all
You may remember that a nearby community group (BGCA) wanted to hold
a meeting concerning Parking Permits on 20th February. It was cancelled because
the councillor concerned couldn't attend.
BGCA have arranged another meeting for Wednesday 27th March at 8.00
pm at the Well on Ecclesall Road. Cllr Neale Gibson should be there. I've been
told that he is now responsible for parking permits.
ECCO members are invited, but please reply to this email or let me
know somehow if you are fairly sure you want to come. This is important because
BGCA needs a good idea of the numbers.
Also please remember that we are only invited to deal with the
specific issue of parking permits, not to air our grievances about everything
else!
Mike
