Neighbours,
I agree that just imposing more and more rules solves nothing and just
makes people angry and therefore unreasonable. So as I see it, if you
can afford to run two cars, you can afford a high charge, and also if
you can afford a whopping great big car, you can afford to pay more, so
both Alex's options are useful. However, the fees need to be quite
onerous - if you want to have lots of big cars, perhaps you are living
in the wrong place.
So I suggest a cost recovery fee for the first car if it is in the
lowest vehicle tax band, then rising very steeply for higher taxed cars
and then even more steeply for second and subsequent cars.
Another possible solution applicable to our area is to try (yet again)
to encourage the owner of the land between Newington and Wiseton Roads
to allow parking and even garages - which will have the added advantage
of showing people just how much parking could cost.
There is also an underlying philosophical problem here, called 'The
Tragedy of The Commons
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons>' : 'The tragedy
of the commons is a term used in environmental science to describe a
situation in a shared-resource system where individual users acting
independently according to their own self-interest behave contrary to
the common good of all users by depleting or spoiling that resource
through their collective action.' This argument, however is used by
those on the right to justify the privatisation and monetisation of
everything
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons#Criticism> - the
route which parking fees is - albeit tentatively - going down. We could,
though, recreate a 'commons' on our streets by encouraging car sharing,
linked to a strict limit of only enough permits for the actual space
available, charged at cost recovery only. Any takers?
Cheers,
Gordon
On 30/03/2019 12:12, Alexander Basran (Redacted sender a_basran for
DMARC) wrote:
Dear all,
I think this whole situation is very difficult. Clearly we want the council to put in place as few restrictions of liberty as are necessary to achieve a harmonious community for all. However I feel that restricting permit numbers to one per house is unreasonable as many people (families, long distance commuters etc) may practically need two cars. An alternative way to look at this might be to look at inhabitants to vehicle ratio for each house when applying for permits.
It would certainly be possible to reduce permit numbers by charging more in a doubling pattern , for example first permit, £50, second permit £100, third permit £200, 4th permit £400. This would have the advantage of not technically restricting anyone (if someone is particularly keen for an extra permit) but making, for example a second or third permit a much more thought provoking exercise.
Another measure which I have seen in other places is to offer a reduced rate eg £5 per year (just to cover costs) for cars of less than 3m in length. This would have the effect of actually creating more spaces, if people were persuaded by it. There are, however relatively few cars that would fulfil this requirement.
Another potential measure would be to paint lines marking the spaces out on the road. This would have the effect of 'lining people up' better and might give a few extra spaces, although clearly this would negate any benefit produced by people using shorter cars, as above.
Let the debate continue!
Best wishes,
Alexander
On 30 Mar 2019, at 10:40, Mike and Jan Andrews <botanic88@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:botanic88@xxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Hi all
We went to the parking permit meeting on Wednesday. People are angry because the Council sells more permits than there are spaces.
This situation might be improved by not selling three permits to any house. But this would only reduce the permits by five, according to the figures James gave us. The situation might also be improved by adding a few more spaces somehow.
However we think these possibilities only scratch the surface. The only way to really solve the problem would be for the Council to sell less 'second car' permits.
How could the Council sell less 'second car' permits in a fair manner?
This question isn't easy to answer. We have tried and so far failed!
Regards
Mike and Jan
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* eccotalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:eccotalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> <eccotalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:eccotalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> on behalf of James Sutherland <info@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:info@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
*Sent:* 25 March 2019 20:20
*To:* eccotalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:eccotalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
*Subject:* [eccotalk] Re: Botanical Gate Community Group meeting about parking permits
Hi everyone
I’m sorry I can’t make the meeting this week regarding car parking around the ECCO forum area due to a family birthday. I like most of us do worry (and indeed stress) about the daily challenges each of us faces attempting to park cars in resident spaces we have paid for.
Earlier this year I decided to contact Sheffield City Council to make a freedom of information request which was quite enlightening…...
I requested to find out:
* 1. The Council’s estimate of the number of car parking spaces on the roads of Rossington Road, Newington Road and Everton Road.*
* 2. The total number of permits issued on the roads of Rossington Road, Newington Road, Everton Road and numbers 78-92 Brocco Bank.*
* 3. Number of properties issued 3 or more permits.*
*QUESTION 1:*
"In relation to the estimation of the number of car parking spaces, the Council’s Traffic Regulation Order System states the following lengths of bays:
Rossington Road 137m & 129m
Newington Road 122m & 99m
Everton Road 99m & 174m
_/TOTAL: 760m/_
The Council’s transport scheme design team uses an average length of 5.5m when planning the amount of bays.” //
/Therefore, 760 Divided by 5.5 (average vehicle length) = 138 spaces based on the Council’s own calculations./
*
*
*QUESTION 2:*
"In relation to the number of car parking permits issued the Council reports the following number of resident permits have been issued:
Rossington Road 58
Newington Road 36
Everton Road 60
78 – 92 Brocco Bank 6"
_/TOTAL: 160 resident permits issued/_
*QUESTION 3:*
"No properties can be allocated more than 3 parking permits.
X3 properties on Rossington Road have 3 permits
X1 property of Newington Road has 3 permits
X1 property on Everton Road has 3 permits
No properties (78-92) Brocco Bank have 3 permits"
*
*
*IN SUMMARY:*
Based on the Council’s own figures and on the sample size requested it is clear the council have over sold and over subscribed on resident parking permits, *granting approximately 22 permits more than there is physically space for!!!*
This is without considering the additional impact of the Brocco on the Park hotel and restaurant which certainly on Rossington Road places additional pressure on the parking permits. Ordinarily this would be a problem outside of the parking restriction times, however, I have all too often seen people attending the hotel/restaurant parking on Rossington Road with blatant disregard to resident’s parking being in effect. I am supportive towards the hotel for the positive image it portrays and this is by no means a criticism of the staff and management of the hotel as this situation is beyond their control.
*MY QUESTIONS/OBSERVATIONS:*
*1. *Why is the resident’s parking restriction time limited to up until 6pm when to attempt to manage the parking situation 24/7 restrictions are needed to attempt to supply sufficient parking for the resident permits issued?
2. How do the Council plan to take action to more appropriately match the number of allocated parking bays to the actual capacity?
3. Why do students receive a discount for resident parking permits?Many students are resident in Sheffield for the bulk of the year and we do not offer discounts on factors such as road tax, so why should parking be any different?
4. Given there is a clear oversubscription of parking spaces at this time, would it be sensible for the non-residential parking spaces at the bottom of Rossington Road and Newington Road to be converted into resident only parking to attempt to manage the shortage of capacity that has been created by the Council issuing too many resident permits?
Once again, sorry I am unable to make the meeting and also for the length of this email but hopefully the information may be of use and also makes interesting reading for those of us frustrated with struggles to find car parking spaces at times.
Kind regards
James
James Sutherland
Director
84 Brocco Bank Sheffield S118RS
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On 13 Mar 2019, at 19:42, Gwen Wilson <wilsongw123@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:wilsongw123@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
I intend to attend.
Gwen
On Wed, Mar 13, 2019 at 1:31 PM Mike and Jan Andrews <botanic88@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:botanic88@xxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Hi all
You may remember that a nearby community group (BGCA) wanted to
hold a meeting concerning Parking Permits on 20th February. It
was cancelled because the councillor concerned couldn't attend.
BGCA have arranged another meeting for Wednesday 27th March at
8.00 pm at the Well on Ecclesall Road. Cllr Neale Gibson should
be there. I've been told that he is now responsible for parking
permits.
ECCO members are invited, but please reply to this email or let
me know somehow if you are fairly sure you want to come. This is
important because BGCA needs a good idea of the numbers.
Also please remember that we are only invited to deal with the
specific issue of parking permits, not to air our grievances
about everything else!
Mike
