Bravo Gordon!
Shad
--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 1/4/19, Gordon Ferguson <gordon.ferguson@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Subject: [eccotalk] Re: Botanical Gate Community Group meeting about parking
permits
To: eccotalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Monday, 1 April, 2019, 10:17
Neighbours,
I agree that
just imposing more and
more rules solves nothing and just makes people angry
and
therefore unreasonable. So as I see it, if you can
afford to run
two cars, you can afford a high charge, and also if
you can afford
a whopping great big car, you can afford to pay more,
so both
Alex's options are useful. However, the fees need
to be quite
onerous - if you want to have lots of big cars,
perhaps you are
living in the wrong place.
So I suggest a
cost recovery fee for
the first car if it is in the lowest vehicle tax band,
then rising
very steeply for higher taxed cars and then even more
steeply for
second and subsequent cars.
Another
possible solution applicable to
our area is to try (yet again) to encourage the owner
of the land
between Newington and Wiseton Roads to allow parking
and even
garages - which will have the added advantage of
showing people
just how much parking could cost.
There is also
an underlying
philosophical problem here, called 'The
Tragedy of The Commons' : 'The tragedy
of the commons is a
term used in environmental science to describe a
situation in a
shared-resource system where individual users acting
independently
according to their own self-interest behave contrary
to the common
good of all users by depleting or spoiling that
resource through
their collective action.' This argument, however
is used by those
on the right to justify
the privatisation and monetisation of everything
- the route
which parking fees is - albeit tentatively - going
down. We could,
though, recreate a 'commons' on our streets by
encouraging car
sharing, linked to a strict limit of only enough
permits for the
actual space available, charged at cost recovery only.
Any takers?
Cheers,
Gordon
On 30/03/2019 12:12,
Alexander Basran
(Redacted sender a_basran for DMARC) wrote:
Dear all,
I think this whole situation is very difficult.
Clearly we
want the council to put in place as few restrictions
of liberty
as are necessary to achieve a harmonious community
for all.
However I feel that restricting permit numbers to
one per house
is unreasonable as many people (families, long
distance
commuters etc) may practically need two cars. An
alternative way
to look at this might be to look at inhabitants to
vehicle ratio
for each house when applying for permits.
It would certainly be possible to reduce permit
numbers by
charging more in a doubling pattern , for example
first permit,
£50, second permit £100, third permit £200, 4th
permit £400.
This would have the advantage of not technically
restricting
anyone (if someone is particularly keen for an extra
permit) but
making, for example a second or third permit a
much more
thought provoking exercise.
Another measure which I have seen in other places
is to offer
a reduced rate eg £5 per year (just to cover
costs) for cars of
less than 3m in length. This would have the effect
of actually
creating more spaces, if people were persuaded by
it. There are,
however relatively few cars that would fulfil this
requirement.
Another potential measure would be to paint lines
marking the
spaces out on the road. This would have the effect
of 'lining
people up' better and might give a few extra
spaces, although
clearly this would negate any benefit produced by
people using
shorter cars, as above.
Let the debate continue!
Best wishes,
Alexander
On 30 Mar 2019, at 10:40, Mike and Jan Andrews
<botanic88@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Hi all
We went to the parking permit meeting on
Wednesday.
People are angry because the Council sells
more permits
than there are spaces.
This situation might be improved by not
selling three
permits to any house. But this would only
reduce the
permits by five, according to the figures
James gave us.
The situation might also be improved by adding
a few more
spaces somehow.
However we think these possibilities only
scratch the
surface. The only way to really solve the
problem would be
for the Council to sell less 'second
car' permits.
How could the Council sell less 'second
car' permits in
a fair manner?
This question isn't easy to answer. We
have tried and
so far failed!
Regards
Mike and Jan
From: eccotalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<eccotalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
on behalf of James Sutherland <info@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: 25 March 2019 20:20
To: eccotalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [eccotalk] Re: Botanical
Gate Community
Group meeting about parking permits
Hi everyone
I’m
sorry I can’t make the
meeting this week regarding car parking
around the
ECCO forum area due to a family
birthday. I like most
of us do worry (and indeed stress) about
the daily
challenges each of us faces attempting to
park cars in
resident spaces we have paid for.
Earlier
this year I decided to
contact Sheffield City Council to make a
freedom of
information request which was quite
enlightening…...
I
requested to find out:
1. The Council’s estimate
of the number of car parking spaces on
the roads
of Rossington Road, Newington Road and
Everton
Road.
2. The total
number of permits issued on the roads
of
Rossington Road, Newington Road,
Everton Road and
numbers 78-92 Brocco
Bank.
3. Number of properties
issued 3 or more
permits.
QUESTION 1:
"In
relation to the estimation of
the number of car parking spaces, the
Council’s
Traffic Regulation Order System states the
following
lengths of bays:
Rossington Road 137m &
129m
Newington Road 122m &
99m
Everton
Road 99m & 174m
TOTAL:
760m
The
Council’s transport scheme
design team uses an average length of 5.5m
when
planning the amount of bays.”
Therefore, 760
Divided by 5.5 (average vehicle length)
= 138 spaces
based on the Council’s own
calculations.
QUESTION 2:
"In
relation to the number of car
parking permits issued the Council reports
the
following number of resident permits have
been issued:
Rossington Road 58
Newington Road 36
Everton
Road 60
78 –
92 Brocco Bank 6"
TOTAL:
160 resident permits
issued
QUESTION 3:
"No
properties can be allocated
more than 3 parking permits.
X3
properties on Rossington Road
have 3 permits
X1
property of Newington Road has
3 permits
X1
property on Everton Road has 3
permits
No
properties (78-92) Brocco Bank
have 3 permits"
IN SUMMARY:
Based on
the Council’s own
figures and on the sample size requested
it is clear
the council have over sold and over
subscribed on
resident parking permits,
granting
approximately 22 permits more
than there is physically space
for!!!
This is
without considering the
additional impact of the Brocco on the
Park hotel and
restaurant which certainly on Rossington
Road places
additional pressure on the parking
permits.
Ordinarily this would be a problem outside
of the
parking restriction times, however, I have
all too
often seen people attending the
hotel/restaurant
parking on Rossington Road with blatant
disregard to
resident’s parking being in effect. I
am supportive
towards the hotel for the positive image
it portrays
and this is by no means a criticism of the
staff and
management of the hotel as this situation
is beyond
their control.
MY
QUESTIONS/OBSERVATIONS:
1. Why
is the resident’s parking restriction
time limited
to up until 6pm when to attempt to
manage the
parking situation 24/7 restrictions are
needed to
attempt to supply sufficient parking for
the
resident permits issued?
2. How do the Council
plan to take action to more
appropriately match the
number of allocated parking bays to the
actual
capacity?
3. Why do
students receive a discount for resident
parking
permits?
Many
students are resident in Sheffield for
the bulk of
the year and we do not offer discounts
on factors
such as road tax, so why should parking
be any
different?
4. Given there is
a clear oversubscription
of parking spaces at this time, would it
be sensible
for the non-residential parking spaces at
the bottom
of Rossington Road and Newington Road to
be converted
into resident only parking to attempt to
manage the
shortage of capacity that has been created
by the
Council issuing too many resident
permits?
Once again, sorry I am unable to make the
meeting and also
for the length of this email but hopefully the
information
may be of use and also makes interesting
reading for those
of us frustrated with struggles to find car
parking spaces
at times.
Kind regards
James
James
Sutherland
Director
84
Brocco Bank
Sheffield S11 8RS
W: muybien.co.uk
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On 13 Mar
2019, at 19:42, Gwen Wilson
<wilsongw123@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
I
intend to attend.
Gwen
On Wed, Mar
13, 2019 at 1:31 PM Mike and Jan
Andrews <botanic88@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Hi all
You may remember that a
nearby community group (BGCA)
wanted to
hold a meeting concerning
Parking Permits
on 20th February. It was
cancelled because
the councillor concerned
couldn't attend.
BGCA have arranged another
meeting for Wednesday 27th
March at 8.00
pm at the Well on Ecclesall
Road. Cllr
Neale Gibson should be there.
I've been
told that he is now
responsible for
parking permits.
ECCO members are invited,
but please reply to this email
or let me
know somehow if you are fairly
sure you
want to come. This is
important because
BGCA needs a good idea of the
numbers.
Also please remember that
we are only invited to deal
with the
specific issue of parking
permits, not to
air our grievances about
everything else!
Mike
