This must be so hard for both of you. I sense the feeling of helplessness, and
can imagine the other attorney feeling even more exacerbated with the emails.
I’m certainly not a coach, but would love to hear a coach talk about whether
this might be triangulation…
Like the others responding, I think a coach is needed for a discussion between
attorneys.
If she feels managed then status quo is not working. It does not matter where
it all began. If she does not want to communicate on the topic, it is not
feeling safe. Sometimes we need to honor team safety as much as client safety.
It does not matter who got triggered first. What matters is that the two of you
are at impasse on a case that started in litigation and may continue to have
litigation elements.
It might help to offer to pay for a neutral to speak with the two of you about
your dynamic together. Who knows, you may learn more about yourself than you’d
ever imagined. I find when I am triggered at my core I have something to learn
about me.
Just some ideas.
Namaste to you all.
Warmly,
Anne
Anne C. Towey Henninger, of Anne C. Towey, PLLC
Anne C. Towey, PLLC
Main: 952.476.5295 web: <http://www.atowey.com/> www.atowey.com
18305 Minnetonka Blvd, Suite 201
Wayzata, MN 55391
From: CollabLaw@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:CollabLaw@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of ;
hirshwoman@xxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 6:30 PM
To: CollabLaw@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [CollabLaw] Process Snag
Thanks Bonnie,
I'm not sure what you mean by this sentence.
If relo agreement conditional upon having a financial agreement in place by a
good stopping point in the UK school year, see if UK counsel believes that
would be enforceable.
Also, the problem is that the other counsel does not want to converse further
about the dynamic that took place between her and my client. I just want to
have a conversation about it and that is making her feel managed. I feel
stifled and don't know which way to turn. Maybe, I'll write her and ask why
she feels managed, that I feel a need to further converse about it and do we
just decide not to have a further conversation because she feels managed?
Maybe I ask her what is the harm in further conversing? The harm in not
conversing is that communication is stifled when one of us feels there needs to
be a discussion.
The parents don't need a coach...the attorneys do!
Andrea Hirshman, Esq.
Brooklyn, NY
-----Original Message-----
From: Bonnie Brown <bmb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: CollabLaw <CollabLaw@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wed, May 30, 2012 3:57 pm
Subject: RE: [CollabLaw] Process Snag
Andrea, how were they referred to collaborative ? If they were represented by
separate litigation counsel in UK and/or NY before they started with you and
the other atty, maybe the referral sources (family counselor, perhaps ?) could
help and/or give insight. Are there coaches or “relationship specialists” for
the parents? If not, maybe time to bring them in. Usually for parents, but
many coaches talk about how they assist with atty behavior and communication as
well. Maybe you could get Mom and her counsel to do “empathy” exercise by
articulating why Dad should be comfortable that Mom will proceed in good faith
to resolve financial issues once she is in UK and has (as Dad perceives it)
everything she wants.
To address the merits, how would Mom make it while financials are pending ?
Does she have enough income on her own ? Maybe Mom could agree to move out of
her “flat” for Dad’s week in UK till further agreement or court order. Dad
could stay there. That way, the kids would not have to move 1/mo, duplicate or
transport their wardrobe, etc. That would also tend to equalize having skin in
the game for resolving financial issues. How old are kids? School age ? If
relo agreement conditional upon having a financial agreement in place by a good
stopping point in the UK school year, see if UK counsel believes that would be
enforceable. If so, there could be a year or partial year of a different school
if it does not work out, but maybe negatives offset by the kids’ having the
international experience.
Let us know how it turns out.
Best regards,
Bonnie M. Brown
Attorney at Law
Suite 1260, Meidinger Tower
462 South Fourth Street
Louisville, KY 40202 – 3500
U.S.A.
(502) 589 - 4600 telephone
(502) 584 - 0422 facsimile
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From: CollabLaw@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:CollabLaw@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ;
<mailto:CollabLaw@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx?> ] On Behalf Of Andrea Hirshman
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 2:43 PM
To: CollabLaw@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [CollabLaw] Process Snag
Dear Colleagues,
I’m looking for some assistance in how to handle a situation that feels
difficult to me but seems less so to my collaborative counterpart. Husband and
Wife, UK citizens, are trying to work out a parenting plan that will provide
meaningful relationship between hands on dad and two daughters in spite of
Mother’s relocation to UK. Dad has accepted that Mother is miserable here and
does not want her to feel like prisoner and therefore is agreeable to her
relocating. His job has a London satellite office which he can work out of one
week per month – however, his employer says that relocating his job there full
time is not an option. Parents are confident that they can work out some
parenting plan that will meet everyone’s needs. However, Father will not agree
to the relocation unti! l the financials are worked out because he wants to
know that he will be able to financially afford the parenting plan in place.
For example, if he has to fly to the UK once a month, he needs to know that he
will have sufficient money to support that plan. Also, he wants to have a flat
in the UK so that the girls feel like they have a home. He feels stability
would be compromised if they were coming to a hotel room. Mother would like
to put a parenting plan in place, sign it, and then take off even if the
financial matters are not yet settled – with her promise that she will continue
to negotiate the financial terms. Father has lost trust in the Mother for
various reasons and will not agree to the relocation until a written agreement
is in place. When this became clear, the Wife’s attorney in agreement with her
client’s claims, told Husband that she saw his use of the Mother’s inability to
relocate without hi! s permission to leverage the situation to get all the
financial agreem ents that he wanted. The Husband, who remains cool as a
cucumber, asked his wife’s attorney what she meant and she reiterated. He
explained that his UK collaborative attorney told him that without a written
agreement, if he agreed to his wife’s relocation, she could open the whole
matter up in the UK courts. The case is somewhat complicated by the fact that
right before entering collaborative law, the Wife started an action in the UK
courts regarding the financials of the marriage – in hopes that a decision
regarding the home they’ve built there would be made in her favor. The husband
filed in NY immediately after and moved in the UK for dismissal for lack of
jurisdiction. Both cases are on hold.
At the end of the meeting, my client and I debriefed and he was furious at the
other attorney – felt attacked and felt there was no need for him to! feel that
from more than his wife. After my debrief with my client, the other attorney
and I debriefed and I shared that my client felt attack and was very upset. I
shared some of what he said the other attorney felt as if I was just saying it
to humiliate her – turn the screw. I apologized and said that I was sharing in
the hope that we could discuss how to address the situation. We discussed the
substance a bit more to better understand where she was coming from and she
didn’t realize that my client was concerned that the Wife would relocate and
then try to use the UK courts for the financial relief she seeks. Wife’s
Attorney offered that the Agreement could include a provision that NY law would
be applied. I asked whether she thought some sort of acknowledgment of her
misunderstanding, or an apology would be in order to which she replied that
since she was writing the minutes, she would draft them in a way that will !
address the situation - she’ll include her new understandi ng in the minutes.
I’ve read the draft minutes and feel they do not adequately address the
situation.
After receiving the draft minutes, my client wrote me an email explaining how
he felt and reflecting on the session. I wrote the Wife’s attorney wondering
whether we could talk a bit more about the dynamic between her and my client,
informing her of my client’s email, and suggested sharing it with her so we
could figure out together how to use his reflections to make the process even
stronger. The Wife’s attorney responded that she is feeling somewhat managed
by me and feels that she and my client should work it out themselves at the
next session. I’m feeling stifled. I feel like an apology is in order to
restore my client’s trust in the process and in the Wife’s attorney. My hope
is that the other attorne! y would in the beginning explain her
misunderstanding and apologize for lashing out. Clearly, the other attorney is
opposed to the idea of making an apology of sort. I’m not sure why? Is it
that it feels humiliating to her (and my goal is not to humiliate her – I don’t
view apologizing for a mistake as reason for humiliation – I view it as
strength of character)…Or is it that she feels an apology would not be helpful?
Is it best to remain silent and let the chips fall where they fall at the next
meeting – if my client is brave enough to say something? Where does that leave
me with my client? Do I tell my client to email the Wife’s attorney directly?
Will he wonder why I am not having the conversation with the other attorney?
Do I tell him that I tried and that the other attorney did not want to discuss
it with anyone except him? Does that look like I’m not behind him? ! And so
on, and so on. Any insights would be so so appreciated.< o>
Thank you.
Collaboratively yours,
Andrea
Andrea Hirshman, Esq.
Law & Mediation Offices of Andrea Hirshman
Main Office & Mailing Address:
30 Ocean Parkway Suite 3F
Brooklyn, N.Y. 11218
917-969-6416
Familymediationmatters.com
Andrea.hirshman@xxxxxxxxx
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