Thanks Bonnie,
I'm not sure what you mean by this sentence.
If relo agreement conditional upon having a financial agreement in place by a
good stopping point in the UK school year, see if UK counsel believes that
would be enforceable.
Also, the problem is that the other counsel does not want to converse further
about the dynamic that took place between her and my client. I just want to
have a conversation about it and that is making her feel managed. I feel
stifled and don't know which way to turn. Maybe, I'll write her and ask why
she feels managed, that I feel a need to further converse about it and do we
just decide not to have a further conversation because she feels managed?
Maybe I ask her what is the harm in further conversing? The harm in not
conversing is that communication is stifled when one of us feels there needs to
be a discussion.
The parents don't need a coach...the attorneys do!
Andrea Hirshman, Esq.
Brooklyn, NY
-----Original Message-----
From: Bonnie Brown <bmb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: CollabLaw <CollabLaw@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wed, May 30, 2012 3:57 pm
Subject: RE: [CollabLaw] Process Snag
Andrea, how were they referred tocollaborative ? If they were represented by
separate litigation counsel inUKand/or NY before they started with you and the
other atty, maybe the referralsources (family counselor, perhaps ?) could help
and/or give insight. Arethere coaches or “relationship specialists” for the
parents? If not, maybe time to bring them in. Usually for parents, but
manycoaches talk about how they assist with atty behavior and communication
aswell. Maybe you could get Mom and her counsel to do “empathy”exercise by
articulating why Dad should be comfortable that Mom will proceed ingood faith
to resolve financial issues once she is in UK and has (as Dadperceives it)
everything she wants.
To address the merits, how would Mom makeit while financials are pending ?
Does she have enough income on her own? Maybe Mom could agree to move out of
her “flat” for Dad’sweek in UKtill further agreement or court order. Dad could
stay there. That way, the kidswould not have to move 1/mo, duplicate or
transport their wardrobe, etc. Thatwould also tend to equalize having skin in
the game for resolving financialissues. How old are kids? School age ? If relo
agreement conditional uponhaving a financial agreement in place by a good
stopping point in the UK school year, see if UK counsel believes that would
beenforceable. If so, there could be a year or partial year of a different
schoolif it does not work out, but maybe negatives offset by the kids’
havingthe international experience.
Let us know how it turns out.
Best regards,
Bonnie M. Brown
Attorney at Law
Suite 1260, Meidinger Tower
462 South Fourth Street
Louisville, KY 40202– 3500
U.S.A.
(502) 589 - 4600 telephone
(502) 584 - 0422 facsimile
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From:CollabLaw@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:CollabLaw@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of ;
Andrea Hirshman
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 2:43PM
To: CollabLaw@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [CollabLaw] Process Snag
Dear Colleagues,
I’m lookingfor some assistance in how to handle a situation that feels
difficult to me butseems less so to my collaborative counterpart. Husband and
Wife, UKcitizens, are trying to work out a parenting plan that will
providemeaningful relationship between hands on dad and two daughters in spite
ofMother’s relocation to UK. Dad has accepted that Mother ismiserable here and
does not want her to feel like prisoner and therefore isagreeable to her
relocating. His job has a London satellite office which he can work outof one
week per month – however, his employer says that relocating hisjob there full
time is not an option. Parents are confident that they canwork out some
parenting plan that will meet everyone’s needs. However, Father will not agree
to the relocation unti! l the financials areworked out because he wants to know
that he will be able to financially affordthe parenting plan in place. For
example, if he has to fly to the UK once amonth, he needs to know that he will
have sufficient money to support thatplan. Also, he wants to have a flat in
the UK so that the girls feel like theyhave a home. He feels stability would
be compromised if they were comingto a hotel room. Mother would like to put a
parenting plan inplace, sign it, and then take off even if the financial
matters are not yetsettled – with her promise that she will continue to
negotiate thefinancial terms. Father has lost trust in the Mother for various
reasonsand will not agree to the relocation until a written agreement is
inplace. When this became clear, the Wife’s attorney in agreementwith her
client’s claims, told Husband that she saw his use of the Mother’sinability to
relocate without hi! s permission to leverage the situation to getall the
financial agreem ents that he wanted. The Husband, who remainscool as a
cucumber, asked his wife’s attorney what she meant and shereiterated. He
explained that his UKcollaborative attorney told him that without a written
agreement, if he agreedto his wife’s relocation, she could open the whole
matter up in the UKcourts. The case is somewhat complicated by the fact that
rightbefore entering collaborative law, the Wife started an action in the UK
courtsregarding the financials of the marriage – in hopes that a
decisionregarding the home they’ve built there would be made in her favor. The
husband filed in NY immediately after and moved in the UK fordismissal for lack
of jurisdiction. Both cases are on hold.
At the end of themeeting, my client and I debriefed and he was furious at the
other attorney– felt attacked and felt there was no need for him to! feel that
frommore than his wife. After my debrief with my client, the otherattorney
and I debriefed and I shared that my client felt attack and was veryupset. I
shared some of what he said the other attorney felt as if I was justsaying it
to humiliate her – turn the screw. I apologized and saidthat I was sharing in
the hope that we could discuss how to address thesituation. We discussed the
substance a bit more to better understandwhere she was coming from and she
didn’t realize that my client wasconcerned that the Wife would relocate and
then try to use the UK courts forthe financial relief she seeks. Wife’s
Attorney offered that theAgreement could include a provision that NY law would
be applied. I askedwhether she thought some sort of acknowledgment of her
misunderstanding, or anapology would be in order to which she replied that
since she was writing theminutes, she would draft them in a way that will !
address the situation- she’ll include her new understandi ng in the minutes.
I’veread the draft minutes and feel they do not adequately address the
situation.
After receivingthe draft minutes, my client wrote me an email explaining how
he felt andreflecting on the session. I wrote the Wife’s attorney wondering
whetherwe could talk a bit more about the dynamic between her and my client,
informingher of my client’s email, and suggested sharing it with her so we
couldfigure out together how to use his reflections to make the process
evenstronger. The Wife’s attorney responded that she is feelingsomewhat
managed by me and feels that she and my client should work it outthemselves at
the next session. I’m feeling stifled. I feel like an apology is in order
to restore myclient’s trust in the process and in the Wife’s attorney. Myhope
is that the other attorne! y would in the beginning explain hermisunderstanding
and apologize for lashing out. Clearly, the other attorney isopposed to the
idea of making an apology of sort. I’m not surewhy? Is it that it feels
humiliating to her (and my goal is not tohumiliate her – I don’t view
apologizing for a mistake as reasonfor humiliation – I view it as strength of
character)…Or is it thatshe feels an apology would not be helpful? Is it best
to remain silentand let the chips fall where they fall at the next meeting – if
my clientis brave enough to say something? Where does that leave me with
myclient? Do I tell my client to email the Wife’s attorneydirectly? Will he
wonder why I am not having the conversation withthe other attorney? Do I tell
him that I tried and that the otherattorney did not want to discuss it with
anyone except him? Does thatlook like I’m not behind him? ! And so on, and so
on. Anyinsights would be so so appreciated.< o>
Thank you.
Collaborativelyyours,
Andrea
Andrea Hirshman, Esq.
Law & Mediation Offices of Andrea Hirshman
Main Office & Mailing Address:
30 Ocean Parkway Suite 3F
Brooklyn, N.Y. 11218
917-969-6416
Familymediationmatters.com
Andrea.hirshman@xxxxxxxxx
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