[CIAM-F6-Working_Group] Re: World Artistic Games

  • From: Guy Revel <guyrevel@xxxxxxxx>
  • To: ciam-f6-wg@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 10:45:00 +0200

Hello Mike,

Thanks for your contribution. Good to know indoor freestyle aerobatics is now on the move in Australia.

The World Artistic Games are not taking place in Colombia (where the 2013 World Games will take place) and travel should not be a big problem as travel expenses are covered by the host. As said, we do not know yet where the World Artistic Games will take place, but if there is one Australian pilot at the required level, please make sure he accepts an invitation (actually he will have to be nominated by MAAA and his nomination approved by CIAM). He would then have to practice to the full AeroMusicals rules.

Guy R.

At 01:15 23/05/2011, you wrote:
Hello Guy

We have one very good Aero Musical pilot here in Australia but there is very little chance that he will travel to Columbia.


Mike O'Reilly

From: ciam-f6-wg-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ciam-f6-wg-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Andres Leoni
Sent: Monday, 23 May 2011 7:35 AM
To: Guy Revel
Subject: [CIAM-F6-Working_Group] Re: World Artistic Games

  Hello Guy.

I live on Fuengirola, Malaga, at south of Spain, actually on Cataluña is one good pilot, he finish on second place behind me the last 6 years, and new pilots come since the past year, i believe that we need just a little more time for present two pilots on an "Prestige event" , but i will talk with my partner and i will tell you what compromise he have with these questions. Ido starts the last year with new models on indoor freestyle flights, i´m shure that this will be a good competition for him and for the championship.
 I agree with Donatas about invite to Gabriel Altuz.



Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 20:47:59 +0200
To: ciam-f6-wg@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: guyrevel@xxxxxxxx
Subject: [CIAM-F6-Working_Group] Re: World Artistic Games

Andres & all,

Thank you for the information. So this drives to more questions :

1) Are they other Spanish indoor pilots that may be up to the required level ? Is there a need for a selection in Spain (actually all the AM pilots I've heard of are from Barcelona or Catalunya). 2) I know and I have seen Ido Segev fly, but I didn't know he was flying indoor too. Jiri, I believe you have Ido's email address, would you write him or give me his email address ? 3) About Japan, it is up to Ken to tell us. Obviously we would welcome pilots from outside Europe as well as judges.

I have not been told anything on the subject a covers everything, but I would not be surprised if the next World Air Games and World Artistic Games organisers were from outside Europe. Two reasons for that : - The center of gravity of aeromodelling activity shifts increasingly towards Asia; - We are talking about multi-sport events and the interest is not centered on our sport, but on communication through sports. This is how the latest World Games were in Asia and the coming ones in Colombia. The money for large events is not in Europe any more, just think at the forthcoming football/soccer World Cup in the Arabic states. As long as the travel expenses are covered by the organisers, this should be of no concern and, on the contrary, the chances of increased TV coverage are real. This is good when you are looking for sponsors.

Guy R.

At 20:09 22/05/2011, you wrote:

 Hello Dear Guy.

My situation now is ok, I´m Argentinian and Spanish citizen since the past October. About your questions, I agree with Mr. Jiri, and may be a good idea talk with Ido Segev from Israel, he is a very good freestyler and if he aply the rules for shure can fly on World class level. I see some videos on You Tube from Japanes championship, and some boys make rasonable freestyles, if they aply the rules they can take part on world class championship.



Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 12:09:47 +0200
To: ciam-f6-wg@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: guyrevel@xxxxxxxx
Subject: [CIAM-F6-Working_Group] Re: World Artistic Games

Dear Jiri,

Thank you for your contribution. At this point, competition RC indoor activity is nil in Africa (but starting from what Bob Skinner told me) and Oceania (Australia), I would apreciate Ken to tell us what the situation is at this time in Japan and other Asian countries.

I look forward seeing such an international contest in the Czech Rep. Actually I would expect more possible participating countries than you mention by adding Slovakia, Lithuania and possibly Belarus and obviously at least Germany. Don't forget that registration to FAI must be before November 15.

World Air Games, World Games, World Artistic Games clearly show a new trend that affects not only our activity, but all CIAM and FAI competitions. These are high-level competitions ( "Prestige Events" ) which have in common, compared to World Championships, that the number of competitors is limited and that only the World's best competitors may be invited, irrespective of their Nation, whereas at World Championships every NAC is entitled to send a national team of up to 3 competitors. In other words: - At World Championships, the competitive level of the entrants is not taken into account and the number of competitors is not limited. This makes for the very unequal competitors' level we see at every RC World Championship. - At "Prestige Events" the number of competitors is limited but only the World's best are invited. NAC's action & power is limited to approve or not the invited pilots from their country.

So obviously the only way to select competitors for Prestige Events is via some kind of World Ranking. It just happens that for the World Artistic Games, the short time remaining makes it unrealistic in my opinion and we need more international contests anyway. But as these Games are here to stay, we should look into the future. Donatas suggested establishing a World Cup for F3P competitions. The idea is good and could be extended to F6B AeroMusicals. It is just that, up to now, there have been very few official international contests in these two classes and limited to the Czech Rep., Belgium, Lithuania and France and only 6 official international contests registered in the FAI contest calendar over the last 8 years, not very satisfying to say the least. If all indoor contests to FAI rules ( F3P & F6B) with international participation were registered, as FAI rules make it mandatory, the situation would be much, much better.

During the coming Winter I expect at least the Czech and Lithuanian contests to be officially registered to FAI, I have hints that one in the UK could be registered too and possibly one in France. The more international participation, the better view we will have of the respective levels of all pilots and really send to the World Artistic Games the very best of them. As for a World Cup, because several CIAM Delegates belong to this Working Group, it would be up to them to prepare a suitable proposal for the next CIAM Plenary.

I almost forgot : Indoor freestyle is flown in the USA, but with loose rules varying from organiser to organiser. F3P or F6B have never been flown there to the full rules extend, but it will not be a problem to have two World class pilots nominated, provided they then practice to the actual AeroMusicals rules.

Guy R.
PS: Andres, what is your situation with the Spanish Aero-Club now ? Wouldn't it be mush simpler to apply for a Sporting Licence to the Argentinian Aero Club, as you are entitled to ?

At 22:36 21/05/2011, you wrote:
Dear Guy,

Thank you for the information that Aero Musicals are accepted as a part of World Artistic Games and it is good news signalling that popularity of indoor free style aerobatics seems to be growing. I fully agree with you that the requirement to select 24 first class competitors with only 2 pilots from each country could be quite difficult because as far as I know, there are only few countries which could offer really ?world class" performing pilots. Unfortunately I know only the situation in Europe and little bit in USA (watching some videos) and based on my opinion I can answer your 2 questions following way: Germany, Czech Republic, France and USA are able to offer even more than 3 perfectly suitable pilots for top World event like World Artistic Games. Belgium, The Netherlands, Italy, Spain, Lithuania, Hungary are able to offer at least one or two suitable pilots As I mentioned before I do not know the situation in Asia, Africa, Oceania or Australia ? sorry, I never heard any single word about the Aero Musicals in these parts of the World.

Anyway, on the beginning of next year (2012) we are ready to organize in Czech Republic the international contest for Aero Musicals and we will invite the possible pilots from Polen, Russia, Hungary, Austria and the results of this contest could be used for selection of good free style pilots.

Best regards

Jiri Havel

From: ciam-f6-wg-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [ <mailto:ciam-f6-wg-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>mailto:ciam-f6-wg-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Guy Revel
Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2011 10:19 PM
To: ciam-f6-wg@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [CIAM-F6-Working_Group] World Artistic Games

Dear all,
It is now official : AeroMusicals will be part of the World Artistic Games along with many other sports. Here are a few details : Multisport event organized by SportAccord ( <http://www.sportaccord.com/en/>http://www.sportaccord.com/en/)
First edition should be held in 2012 (Nov ?) or 2013 (Feb to May)
Seven sports expected to be on the official sports program : Gymnastics, Swimming, Dance Sport, Roller, Cycling and Air Sports (Indoor AeroMusicals) Cycling, Dance Sport, Roller Sport and Air Sports are expected to share the same venue. Competition schedule should consist of 1 training day and 2 competition days (see attached draft schedule)
24 top competitors for Indoor AeroMusicals
All travel and in-country costs should be paid by the host for each competitor. The actual requirements are somewhat conflicting : SportAccord wants the absolute 24 very best competitors in the World, but simultaneously expect as many participating countries as possible with preferably no more than 2 competitors per country.
So my questions:
1) In which countries do you believe there are at least two World Class AeroMusicals pilots ? 2) Which countries may field certainly one, but probably not two World class competitors ? This drives to the selection method. Obviously most selection contests that may take place would be during the Winter 2011/2012, so in order to forward all necessary information to the concerned NACs, a decision has to be made early, I mean around June 15 at the latest in order to send everything to the NACs before the Summer. My opinion at this point is that World Artistic Games (WAG2) competitors are to be nominated by their National Aero Club (NAC), either through direct nomination or selection contests. Nevertheless, as the final entry is limited to 24, we and the CIAM Bureau will have to make a final decision as it may be that some obscure country submits two names we have never heard about. Because the competition season is across 2011 and 2012, it seems better to use for everybody the 2012-valid rules (actually the only change is in the last scoring criterion, a very important change in fact). I am convinced that in the major countries such as the Czech Republic, Germany or France, fair selection contests will be run without difficulty and I do not doubt the two top pilots coming out of these contests will actually be World class. The situation is not so clear with other countries such as the UK, Russia and such. For this reason, international contests would be a tremendous help. I have no doubt that Donatas can do that in Lithuania and probably France may see such a contest (IITOP), At least one contest in the Czech Republic would help as pilots from Poland, Slovakia, Austria etc. may enter. So for the time beeing please answer ASAP my two questions before we go into the next step. Meanwhile I may have more informations.
Guy R.
PS: To answer some wuestions: the net result of all this is that 2013 will be extremely busy for AeroMusicals, beginning with the World Artistic Games at the beginning of the year (or shortly before), the World Games in Cali, Colombia in August and the World Air Games in-between. PPS: Any contest from now on may also count for the WAG 2013 selection (top 12 pilots, same criteria as last time)..

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