Hi Gary: Yes, Brian's scripts for Itunes are great. I am still using the demo version but plan to purchase them next week. Russell -----Original Message----- From: blindcasting-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:blindcasting-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Gary Wood Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 2:22 PM To: blindcasting@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: Itunes Hi Russell! Bryan does a great job with the scripts he produces for folks! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Russell Solowoniuk" <RSOLOWONIUK@xxxxxxx> To: <blindcasting@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 8:44 AM Subject: RE: Itunes > Hi all, > > I just started using the Itunes program this past weekend. I am using an > Ipod Shuffle I received from Audible. I am trying out the Jaws scripts > written by Brian Hartgen and they work great. It took a bit of doing, but > I > was able to set up an account at the Apple store and can now purchase > music > tracks and albums from the Itunes Apple Music store without too much > difficulty. I'm also using Itunes for subscribing to and downloading > PodCasts. With Brian's scripts I have access to a large variety of radio > stations which I am able to pick from a list. Itunes makes it extremely > easy > to rip tracks from your CD collection and then load them onto the Ipod > Shuffle. > > I had attempted to use Creative Labs software with a Creative Zen Touch > MP3 > player and found it a lot more inaccessible than Itunes. > > Anyway, that's just my two cents worth. > > Take care all, > > Russell > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindcasting-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > [mailto:blindcasting-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Darcy Burnard > Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 10:56 AM > To: blindcasting@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: Re: Itunes > > Hi Chris. For the most part I would agree with you. When choosing > between > a product whos producers are interested in accessibility and one who > isn't, > I'l take the first one every time. However, there are times where there > aren't any real alternatives and we have to deal with a product which > isn't > as usable as we might like. I know personally I would love to be able to > use the itunes music store, and unfortunately that means using the itunes > software. > > > On Wed, 11 Jan 2006, Chris Skarstad wrote: > >> Hi >> >> This is going to be my last word on this subject, because I think I've >> made myself clear as to how I feel. I kind of take issue with Darrel's >> comments below, only because as I said before, it, is, all, in, how, >> you, go, about, it. >> We have to go to these companies and say you know, we would use your >> products, but we can't. It's all about the bottom line y'all, and the >> bottom line is about loss of revenue. >> The thing is we have to proove to them that it would be a significant >> loss, and that's where the problems come in. We are clearly a >> minority, that much I agree with. But we should still be granted >> access to these products. Having a defeatest attitude, or one that is >> too forceful or militant, helps, no, one. >> Also as I said, instead of beating our heads against the walls trying >> to work with companies who have no interest in making their products >> accessible, let's find companies who offer similar products and >> software programs, but who *are* interested in access for everybody. >> Itunes ain't the end all be all in music software, folks. To me itunes >> is a piece of crap, I was never really all that impressed with it, even > with the scripts. >> I sent a note to Red Chair software thanking them for making their >> program Anapod Explorer accessible to me. I'm sure they were >> thankful for the kind words, and it may have opened their eyes, bad >> pun i know but it's true, about their user base. Unlike Apple, some >> companies are interested in making their stuff accessible, so I say, >> let's work with them instead. After all, why beat your head against >> the wall working with someone who doesn't want to work, when you can >> find someone who does and get the same job done and there's less of a > headache? why take the long way around. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> At 07:57 PM 1/10/2006, you wrote: >>> Hi Gary, Steve and all, >>> >>> We are deemed too insignificant for companies to be even remotely >>> interested in forming partnerships, etc. Besides, most of the blind >>> community is too fragmented and weak to do anything seriously >>> effective to improve accessibility. >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Wood" <k8hlx@xxxxxxxxxxx> >>> To: <blindcasting@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >>> Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 10:37 AM >>> Subject: Re: Itunes >>> >>> >>>> Hi Steve! I think I would agree with that! I think it indeed takes >>>> teamwork! Maybe we need to work with companies as partners to get >>>> accessibility accomplished. That may be the only way! Maybe we >>>> can't get anywhere with companies by just demanding that they follow >>>> through on making things happen for us! >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Holmes" >>>> <steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> >>>> To: <blindcasting@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 12:00 PM >>>> Subject: Re: Itunes >>>> >>>> >>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>>>> Hash: RIPEMD160 >>>>> >>>>> I only make that one point about a case at a time because it may >>>>> take so much effort on each person's part. To get some of these >>>>> reforms through might require a person getting inside the >>>>> organization or at least a piece of the development action so he or >>>>> she can make influinces on the development cycle. >>>>> >>>>> I think our blindness organizations could get a lot more involved >>>>> in making policy statements and conveying such positions to product >>>>> developers and use its members to help verify compliance to such >>>>> policies. I think the idea of sending reps to shows like the >>>>> consumer electronics show in Los Vegas is an excellent one. >>>>> Remember Darrell from this list attending the Media Expo in >>>>> Onterio, California last fall? He got a brief audience with Adam >>>>> Curry, the Podfather:). I only hope that meeting results in something > beyond a verbal committment. >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Jan 09, 2006 at 03:29:36PM -0500, Gary Wood wrote: >>>>>> Hi Steve! Well Maybe these should be done on a case by case basis! >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Holmes" >>>>>> <steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> >>>>>> To: <blindcasting@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >>>>>> Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 11:35 AM >>>>>> Subject: Re: Itunes >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>>>>> >Hash: RIPEMD160 >>>>>> > >>>>>> >Well, it almost has to happen on a case by case process. One >>>>>> >example if I may toot my own horn a bit, is My church is >>>>>> >preparing to roll out a big web based initiative to facilitate >>>>>> >family history research. Like so many new proposed web sites and >>>>>> >web changes, our accessibility is always up for grabs. I pleeded >>>>>> >for and actually got access to their beta program. I have >>>>>> >already suggested improvements to their proposed web form layouts >>>>>> >with more to come for sure and I also already beet up on their >>>>>> >visual verification scheme for user registration. At least I've >>>>>> >done what I could so far; that was all in the past week and I now >>>>>> >await their committments to change. At least my foot is in the >>>>>> >door and I hope these efforts will benefit other blind church >>>>>> >members and eventually the blind public at large who should take >>>>>> >advantage of the new family search service. >>>>>> > >>>>>> >On Sat, Jan 07, 2006 at 01:45:13PM -0700, Darrell Shandrow wrote: >>>>>> >>Hi Gary, >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >>It is always a balancing act. Screen readers allow us access to >>>>>> >>computers. >>>>>> >>These companies must certainly continue doing their part to >>>>>> >>develop and implement technologies that make our technology >>>>>> >>lives more accessible. >>>>>> >>On >>>>>> >>the other hand, mainstream tech companies must also do the right >>>>>> >>thing by meeting us the other halfway, reasonably accomodating >>>>>> >>accessibility needs. >>>>>> >>We must ask and insist on it if necessary, finally using the >>>>>> >>available laws when appropriate as the very last resort. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >>By and large, at this time, the blind community simply lacks the >>>>>> >>will to get serious about accessibility issues. The consumer >>>>>> >>organizations and others are quite frankly paralyzed to do >>>>>> >>anything significant. So long as that's the case, we're stuck >>>>>> >>and inaccessibility is getting worse for us on practically a >>>>>> >>second by second basis! >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Gary Wood" >>>>>> >><k8hlx@xxxxxxxxxxx> >>>>>> >>To: <blindcasting@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >>>>>> >>Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 1:26 PM >>>>>> >>Subject: Re: Itunes >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >>>Hi Darrell! I think that as blind people, we should step up to >>>>>> >>>the plate, and get involved to try to solve the accessibility >>>>>> >>>issues; but I don't know if we should ask companies to make >>>>>> >>>their products more accessible to us, or we should get involved >>>>>> >>>with companies to make programs accessible from the ground up; >>>>>> >>>but I don't know how we could do this, but it's some food for >>>>>> >>>thought! >>>>>> >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "Darrell Shandrow" >>>>>> <nu7i@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >>>>>> >>>To: <blindcasting@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >>>>>> >>>Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 9:41 AM >>>>>> >>>Subject: Re: Itunes >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>>>Hi Steve, >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>I'm not sure there is much of a "good thing" to be lost with > Apple. >>>>>> >>>>Apple has most likely created VoiceOver only to protect their >>>>>> >>>>education business from loss due to legislation requiring >>>>>> >>>>accessibility of technology in education. As far as I can >>>>>> >>>>tell, the company has done nothing further for us. I think it >>>>>> >>>>is time for us to do a few things. >>>>>> >>>>First, let's start thinking about drafting and sending a >>>>>> >>>>letter to Steve Jobs asking for Apple to do more to make their >>>>>> >>>>products and services accessible. Second, let's start >>>>>> >>>>participating in the forums over at >>>>>> >>>>http://discussions.apple.com to publicly ask for more >>>>>> >>>>accessibility and see what we can get for a response from >>>>>> >>>>Apple and their users. >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>Everytime I think about one of the myriad and increasing >>>>>> >>>>accessibility issues we face with technology, I feel very >>>>>> >>>>depressed. Companies by and large could care less whether or >>>>>> >>>>not we jump in the lake, but the biggest problem lies with the >>>>>> >>>>blind community, who largely refuse to take any significant >>>>>> >>>>collective and individual actions to insist on equal >>>>>> >>>>participation in all that technology already offers the sighted. >>>>>> >>>>Almost >>>>>> >>>>everyone in the companies we need to become more accessible >>>>>> >>>>simply don't know that blind technology users exist. Shame on >>>>>> >>>>us in the blind community for not consistently and frequently >>>>>> >>>>explaining it to them! >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>From: "Steve Holmes" >>>>>> <steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> >>>>>> >>>>To: <blindcasting@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >>>>>> >>>>Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 7:24 AM >>>>>> >>>>Subject: Re: Itunes >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>>>>> >>>>>Hash: RIPEMD160 >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>When I read Anna Dresner's book about her iPod experiences, I >>>>>> >>>>>got the impression that Apple's tech support was quite >>>>>> >>>>>helpful and treated her fairly. Though that was nearly a >>>>>> >>>>>year ago now. I hope some of us blind guys didn't go in >>>>>> >>>>>there like gang busters and ruin a good thing. >>>>>> >>>>>But >>>>>> >>>>>then again, my impressions of Apple's lack of committment to >>>>>> >>>>>accessibility for such popular products like the iPod and >>>>>> >>>>>iTunes, I gues I couldn't blaim some blind folks for ganging >>>>>> >>>>>up on them. I personally have heard absolutely *NOTHING* >>>>>> >>>>>from Apple concerning making iTunes or the iPod any more >>>>>> >>>>>accessible to blind people and furthermore, I have heard >>>>>> >>>>>rumors that the shuffle was being discontinued. If that last >>>>>> >>>>>rumor is untrue, then I will stand corrected. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>?As for the set files I wrote for iTunes, it shouldn't matter >>>>>> >>>>>what version of iTunes is being used. I haven't checked >>>>>> >>>>>Brian Hartgen's sets out to see if they are any better than >>>>>> >>>>>what I have. I only passed my version to a few folks to see >>>>>> >>>>>what was thought but mine need a lot of improvement before >>>>>> >>>>>prime time release. I just find iTunes to be so inconsistent >>>>>> >>>>>with graphical displays and the like, I found it impossible >>>>>> >>>>>to reliably purchase from the store for example. I developed >>>>>> >>>>>my sets using Window-Eyes version 5.5 so they probably >>>>>> >>>>>wouldn't work for any earlier versions of WE but the version >>>>>> >>>>>of iTunes shouldn't matter. >>>>>> >>>>>I'm >>>>>> >>>>>currently using version 6.0 something and my sets still work >>>>>> >>>>>with such as iTunes is. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>On Sat, Jan 07, 2006 at 06:31:49AM -0700, BlindTech of >>>>>> >>>>>BlindTechs.Net >>>>>> >>>>>wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>Being a blind mac user myself and a trainer for >>>>>> >>>>>>mac/osx/tiger/ voiceover/zoom I have to ask one very >>>>>> >>>>>>important question please...... >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>What was the context in which you asked for help. I mean, >>>>>> >>>>>>Was it like "Hey dude, I am blind and I can't find xxxxxx on >>>>>> >>>>>>your site so can you help me?" >>>>>> >>>>>>If so, I see why, if not. hmmmm.... I got to admit though >>>>>> >>>>>>that apple has been getting snotty with allot of blind folks >>>>>> >>>>>>and its not making me to happy because I push for the blind >>>>>> >>>>>>to convert to the mac and promote the mac all over and it >>>>>> >>>>>>annoys the hell out of me when I hear these stories because >>>>>> >>>>>>if one of my clients get this type of treatment it looks bad >>>>>> >>>>>>on me. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>BlindTech of BlindTechs.Net >>>>>> >>>>>>blindtech@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>>>> >>>>>>website: http://blindtechs.net Visit our website where we >>>>>> >>>>>>offer free email, shell accoiunts, shoutcast radio service, >>>>>> >>>>>>online games and more! >>>>>> >>>>>>Powered by Unix not Microsoft >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>On Jan 7, 2006, at 3:37 AM, Chris Gilland wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>Actually, when I looked at the web site, I didn't see any >>>>>> >>>>>>>type limitations, but I could be wrong. I didn't look very >>>>>> >>>>>>>heavily since I couldn't even find the install shield for >>>>>> >>>>>>>version 5, as that's gonna be the first thing that will >>>>>> >>>>>>>have to happen, and frankly, Apple is being quite >>>>>> >>>>>>>interestingly enough, very very very very very rude in not >>>>>> >>>>>>>wanting to help. I called and spoke with someone at the >>>>>> >>>>>>>Apple Care Tech Support line, and they actually had the >>>>>> >>>>>>>guts to sit there and say that because I was blind, they >>>>>> >>>>>>>refused to help me as a customer. None the less, I'm >>>>>> >>>>>>>seriously thinking of taking a complaint to my local ACB >>>>>> >>>>>>>chapter regarding this, as I'm not much for NFB, but I >>>>>> >>>>>>>don't wish to get into a political discussion here, so >>>>>> >>>>>>>thus, I really don't feel comfortable giving any reasons >>>>>> >>>>>>>why that is on list. Anyway, we'll get off that subject... >>>>>> >>>>>>>Yeah, I didn't see any limitations though, but I'll check >>>>>> >>>>>>>later on today a bit more closely. >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>Chris. >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "BlindTech of > BlindTechs.Net" >>>>>> >>>>>>><blindtech@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> >>>>>> >>>>>>>To: <blindcasting@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >>>>>> >>>>>>>Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 11:31 PM >>>>>> >>>>>>>Subject: Re: Itunes >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>I'm assuming that the set files are coded in a way to where > they >>>>>> >>>>>>>won't work with a demo of win eyes? >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>BlindTech of BlindTechs.Net >>>>>> >>>>>>>blindtech@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>>>> >>>>>>>website: http://blindtechs.net >>>>>> >>>>>>>Visit our website where we offer free email, shell accoiunts, >>>>>> >>>>>>>shoutcast radio service, online games and more! >>>>>> >>>>>>>Powered by Unix not Microsoft >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>On Jan 6, 2006, at 3:55 PM, Chris Gilland wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>I have an IPod mini. I?m wondering if anyone may know where > to >>>>>> >>>>>>>>get a coy of Itunes version 5, as apparently, the set files > for >>>>>> >>>>>>>>window eyes do not work with any other version. I?ve >>>>>> >>>>>>>>checked > >>>>>> >>>>>>>>the >>>>>> >>>>>>>>Apple web site, and also have looked on olderversion.com and >>>>>> >>>>>>>>download.com. I?ve used google as well, with no luck. I > really >>>>>> >>>>>>>>would like to try these set files with my demo copy of Window >>>>>> >>>>>>>>eyes. Please let me know if anyone has any ideas. >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>Chris. >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>- -- >>>>>HolmesGrown Solutions >>>>>> >>>>>The best solutions for the best price! >>>>>> >>>>>http://ld.net/?holmesgrown >>>>>> >>>>>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >>>>>> >>>>>Version: GnuPG v1.2.7 (GNU/Linux) >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>iD8DBQFDv88nWSjv55S0LfERA+wyAJ9/eCgj/hW4k9UP6yXxxChReGqNrQCg578Q >>>>>> >>>>>77JIvCcH1WQUoKX7JERMZ5U= >>>>>> >>>>>=h56r >>>>>> >>>>>-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>>>> >- -- >HolmesGrown Solutions >>>>>> >The best solutions for the best price! >>>>>> >http://ld.net/?holmesgrown >>>>>> >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >>>>>> >Version: GnuPG v1.2.7 (GNU/Linux) >>>>>> > >>>>>> >iD8DBQFDwpC2WSjv55S0LfERA1y6AJ9ce6Zpu2Z34g6GaLi616A5PDWfsgCgqICf >>>>>> >hFI6XLn+deW1sQuDUy32CPw= >>>>>> >=nlrP >>>>>> >-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> - -- HolmesGrown Solutions >>>>> The best solutions for the best price! >>>>> http://ld.net/?holmesgrown >>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >>>>> Version: GnuPG v1.2.7 (GNU/Linux) >>>>> >>>>> iD8DBQFDw+gzWSjv55S0LfERA2QdAJ4vAkYt/YYLTVorOOxdch4EP/SA4QCg4vh+ >>>>> Yhh9EGiziQV2HWqp3JqXqxc= >>>>> =1sSM >>>>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> > > > >