RE: Itunes

  • From: Russell Solowoniuk <RSOLOWONIUK@xxxxxxx>
  • To: blindcasting@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 12:31:08 -0700

Hi Gary:

Yes, Brian's scripts for Itunes are great. I am still using the demo
version but plan to purchase them next week.


-----Original Message-----
From: blindcasting-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blindcasting-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Gary Wood
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 2:22 PM
To: blindcasting@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Itunes

Hi Russell!  Bryan does a great job with the scripts he produces for folks!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Russell Solowoniuk" <RSOLOWONIUK@xxxxxxx>
To: <blindcasting@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 8:44 AM
Subject: RE: Itunes

> Hi all,
> I just started using the Itunes program this past weekend. I am using an
> Ipod Shuffle I received from Audible. I am trying out the Jaws scripts
> written by Brian Hartgen and they work great. It took a bit of doing, but 
> I
> was able to set up an account at the Apple store  and can now purchase 
> music
> tracks and albums from the Itunes Apple Music store without too much
> difficulty. I'm also using Itunes for subscribing to and downloading
> PodCasts. With Brian's scripts I have access to a large variety of radio
> stations which I am able to pick from a list. Itunes makes it extremely 
> easy
> to rip tracks from your CD collection and then load them onto the Ipod
> Shuffle.
> I had attempted to use Creative Labs software with a Creative Zen Touch 
> MP3
> player and found it a lot more inaccessible than Itunes.
> Anyway, that's just my two cents worth.
> Take care all,
> Russell
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindcasting-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:blindcasting-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Darcy Burnard
> Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 10:56 AM
> To: blindcasting@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: Itunes
> Hi Chris.  For the most part I would agree with you.  When choosing 
> between
> a product whos producers are interested in accessibility and one who 
> isn't,
> I'l take the first one every time.  However, there are times where there
> aren't any real alternatives and we have to deal with a product which 
> isn't
> as usable as we might like.  I know personally I would love to be able to
> use the itunes music store, and unfortunately  that means using the itunes
> software.
> On Wed, 11 Jan 2006, Chris Skarstad wrote:
>> Hi
>> This is going to be my last word on this subject, because I think I've
>> made myself clear as to how I feel. I kind of take issue with Darrel's
>> comments below, only because as I said before, it, is, all, in, how,
>> you, go, about, it.
>> We have to go to these companies and say you know, we would use your
>> products, but we can't. It's all about the bottom line y'all, and the
>> bottom line is about loss of revenue.
>> The thing is we have to proove to them that it would be a significant
>> loss, and that's where the problems come in. We are clearly a
>> minority, that much I agree with.  But we should still be granted
>> access to these products. Having a defeatest attitude, or one that is
>> too forceful or militant, helps, no, one.
>> Also as I  said, instead of beating our heads against the walls trying
>> to work with companies who have no interest in making their products
>> accessible, let's find companies who offer similar products and
>> software programs, but who *are* interested in access for everybody.
>> Itunes ain't the end all be all in music software, folks. To me itunes
>> is a piece of crap, I was never really all that impressed with it, even
> with the scripts.
>> I sent a note to Red Chair software thanking them for making their
>> program Anapod  Explorer accessible to me.  I'm sure they were
>> thankful for the kind words, and it may have opened their eyes, bad
>> pun i know but it's true, about their user base.  Unlike Apple, some
>> companies  are interested in making their stuff accessible, so I say,
>> let's work with them instead. After all, why beat your head against
>> the wall working with someone who doesn't want to work, when you can
>> find someone who does and get the same job done and there's less of a
> headache? why take the long way around.
>> At 07:57 PM 1/10/2006, you wrote:
>>> Hi Gary, Steve and all,
>>> We are deemed too insignificant for companies to be even remotely
>>> interested in forming partnerships, etc.  Besides, most of the blind
>>> community is too fragmented and weak to do anything seriously
>>> effective to improve accessibility.
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Wood" <k8hlx@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> To: <blindcasting@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 10:37 AM
>>> Subject: Re: Itunes
>>>> Hi Steve!  I think I would agree with that!  I think it indeed takes
>>>> teamwork!  Maybe we need to work with companies as partners to get
>>>> accessibility accomplished.  That may be the only way!  Maybe we
>>>> can't get anywhere with companies by just demanding that they follow
>>>> through on making things happen for us!
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Holmes"
>>>> <steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> To: <blindcasting@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 12:00 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: Itunes
>>>>> Hash: RIPEMD160
>>>>> I only make that one point about a case at a time because it may
>>>>> take so much effort on each person's part.  To get some of these
>>>>> reforms through might require a person getting inside the
>>>>> organization or at least a piece of the development action so he or
>>>>> she can make influinces on the development cycle.
>>>>> I think our blindness organizations could get a lot more involved
>>>>> in making policy statements and conveying such positions to product
>>>>> developers and use its members to help verify compliance to such
>>>>> policies.  I think the idea of sending reps to shows like the
>>>>> consumer electronics show in Los Vegas is an excellent one.
>>>>> Remember Darrell from this list attending the Media Expo in
>>>>> Onterio, California last fall?  He got a brief audience with Adam
>>>>> Curry, the Podfather:).  I only hope that meeting results in something
> beyond a verbal committment.
>>>>> On Mon, Jan 09, 2006 at 03:29:36PM -0500, Gary Wood wrote:
>>>>>> Hi Steve!  Well Maybe these should be done on a case by case basis!
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Holmes"
>>>>>> <steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> To: <blindcasting@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 11:35 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Itunes
>>>>>> >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>>> >Hash: RIPEMD160
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >Well, it almost has to happen on a case by case process.  One
>>>>>> >example if I may toot my own horn a bit, is My church is
>>>>>> >preparing to roll out a big web based initiative to facilitate
>>>>>> >family history research.  Like so many new proposed web sites and
>>>>>> >web changes, our accessibility is always up for grabs.  I pleeded
>>>>>> >for and actually got access to their beta program.  I have
>>>>>> >already suggested improvements to their proposed web form layouts
>>>>>> >with more to come for sure and I also already beet up on their
>>>>>> >visual verification scheme for user registration.  At least I've
>>>>>> >done what I could so far; that was all in the past week and I now
>>>>>> >await their committments to change.  At least my foot is in the
>>>>>> >door and I hope these efforts will benefit other blind church
>>>>>> >members and eventually the blind public at large who should take
>>>>>> >advantage of the new family search service.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >On Sat, Jan 07, 2006 at 01:45:13PM -0700, Darrell Shandrow wrote:
>>>>>> >>Hi Gary,
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>It is always a balancing act.  Screen readers allow us access to
>>>>>> >>computers.
>>>>>> >>These companies must certainly continue doing their part to
>>>>>> >>develop and implement technologies that make our technology
>>>>>> >>lives more accessible.
>>>>>> >>On
>>>>>> >>the other hand, mainstream tech companies must also do the right
>>>>>> >>thing by meeting us the other halfway, reasonably accomodating
>>>>>> >>accessibility needs.
>>>>>> >>We must ask and insist on it if necessary, finally using the
>>>>>> >>available laws when appropriate as the very last resort.
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>By and large, at this time, the blind community simply lacks the
>>>>>> >>will to get serious about accessibility issues.  The consumer
>>>>>> >>organizations and others are quite frankly paralyzed to do
>>>>>> >>anything significant.  So long as that's the case, we're stuck
>>>>>> >>and inaccessibility is getting worse for us on practically a
>>>>>> >>second by second basis!
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Gary Wood"
>>>>>> >><k8hlx@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> >>To: <blindcasting@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> >>Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 1:26 PM
>>>>>> >>Subject: Re: Itunes
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>>Hi Darrell!  I think that as blind people, we should step up to
>>>>>> >>>the plate, and get involved to try to solve the accessibility
>>>>>> >>>issues; but I don't know if we should ask companies to make
>>>>>> >>>their products more accessible to us, or we should get involved
>>>>>> >>>with companies to make programs accessible from the ground up;
>>>>>> >>>but I don't know how we could do this, but it's some food for
>>>>>> >>>thought!
>>>>>> >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "Darrell Shandrow"
>>>>>> <nu7i@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> >>>To: <blindcasting@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> >>>Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 9:41 AM
>>>>>> >>>Subject: Re: Itunes
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>>>Hi Steve,
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>>I'm not sure there is much of a "good thing" to be lost with
> Apple.
>>>>>> >>>>Apple has most likely created VoiceOver only to protect their
>>>>>> >>>>education business from loss due to legislation requiring
>>>>>> >>>>accessibility of technology in education.  As far as I can
>>>>>> >>>>tell, the company has done nothing further for us.  I think it
>>>>>> >>>>is time for us to do a few things.
>>>>>> >>>>First, let's start thinking about drafting and sending a
>>>>>> >>>>letter to Steve Jobs asking for Apple to do more to make their
>>>>>> >>>>products and services accessible.  Second, let's start
>>>>>> >>>>participating in the forums over at
>>>>>> >>>> to publicly ask for more
>>>>>> >>>>accessibility and see what we can get for a response from
>>>>>> >>>>Apple and their users.
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>>Everytime I think about one of the myriad and increasing
>>>>>> >>>>accessibility issues we face with technology, I feel very
>>>>>> >>>>depressed.  Companies by and large could care less whether or
>>>>>> >>>>not we jump in the lake, but the biggest problem lies with the
>>>>>> >>>>blind community, who largely refuse to take any significant
>>>>>> >>>>collective and individual actions to insist on equal
>>>>>> >>>>participation in all that technology already offers the sighted.
>>>>>> >>>>Almost
>>>>>> >>>>everyone in the companies we need to become more accessible
>>>>>> >>>>simply don't know that blind technology users exist.  Shame on
>>>>>> >>>>us in the blind community for not consistently and frequently
>>>>>> >>>>explaining it to them!
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>From: "Steve Holmes"
>>>>>> <steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> >>>>To: <blindcasting@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> >>>>Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 7:24 AM
>>>>>> >>>>Subject: Re: Itunes
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>>> >>>>>Hash: RIPEMD160
>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>When I read Anna Dresner's book about her iPod experiences, I
>>>>>> >>>>>got the impression that Apple's tech support was quite
>>>>>> >>>>>helpful and treated her fairly.  Though that was nearly a
>>>>>> >>>>>year ago now.  I hope some of us blind guys didn't go in
>>>>>> >>>>>there like gang busters and ruin a good thing.
>>>>>> >>>>>But
>>>>>> >>>>>then again, my impressions of Apple's lack of committment to
>>>>>> >>>>>accessibility for such popular products like the iPod and
>>>>>> >>>>>iTunes, I gues I couldn't blaim some blind folks for ganging
>>>>>> >>>>>up on them.  I personally have heard absolutely *NOTHING*
>>>>>> >>>>>from Apple concerning making iTunes or the iPod any more
>>>>>> >>>>>accessible to blind people and furthermore, I have heard
>>>>>> >>>>>rumors that the shuffle was being discontinued.  If that last
>>>>>> >>>>>rumor is untrue, then I will stand corrected.
>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>?As for the set files I wrote for iTunes, it shouldn't matter
>>>>>> >>>>>what version of iTunes is being used.  I haven't checked
>>>>>> >>>>>Brian Hartgen's sets out to see if they are any better than
>>>>>> >>>>>what I have.  I only passed my version to a few folks to see
>>>>>> >>>>>what was thought but mine need a lot of improvement before
>>>>>> >>>>>prime time release.  I just find iTunes to be so inconsistent
>>>>>> >>>>>with graphical displays and the like, I found it impossible
>>>>>> >>>>>to reliably purchase from the store for example.  I developed
>>>>>> >>>>>my sets using Window-Eyes version 5.5 so they probably
>>>>>> >>>>>wouldn't work for any earlier versions of WE but the version
>>>>>> >>>>>of iTunes shouldn't matter.
>>>>>> >>>>>I'm
>>>>>> >>>>>currently using version 6.0 something and my sets still work
>>>>>> >>>>>with such as iTunes is.
>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>On Sat, Jan 07, 2006 at 06:31:49AM -0700, BlindTech of
>>>>>> >>>>>BlindTechs.Net
>>>>>> >>>>>wrote:
>>>>>> >>>>>>Being a blind mac user myself and a trainer for
>>>>>> >>>>>>mac/osx/tiger/ voiceover/zoom I have to ask one very
>>>>>> >>>>>>important question please......
>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>What was the context in which you asked for help. I mean,
>>>>>> >>>>>>Was it like "Hey dude, I am blind and I can't find xxxxxx on
>>>>>> >>>>>>your site so can you help me?"
>>>>>> >>>>>>If so, I see why, if not. hmmmm.... I got to admit though
>>>>>> >>>>>>that apple has been getting snotty with allot of blind folks
>>>>>> >>>>>>and its not making me to happy because I push for the blind
>>>>>> >>>>>>to convert to the mac and promote the mac all over and it
>>>>>> >>>>>>annoys the hell out of me when I hear these stories because
>>>>>> >>>>>>if one of my clients get this type of treatment it looks bad
>>>>>> >>>>>>on me.
>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>BlindTech of BlindTechs.Net
>>>>>> >>>>>>blindtech@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> >>>>>>website: Visit our website where we
>>>>>> >>>>>>offer free email, shell accoiunts, shoutcast radio service,
>>>>>> >>>>>>online games and more!
>>>>>> >>>>>>Powered by Unix not Microsoft
>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>On Jan 7, 2006, at 3:37 AM, Chris Gilland wrote:
>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>>Actually, when I looked at the web site, I didn't see any
>>>>>> >>>>>>>type limitations, but I could be wrong.  I didn't look very
>>>>>> >>>>>>>heavily since I couldn't even find the install shield for
>>>>>> >>>>>>>version 5, as that's gonna be the first thing that will
>>>>>> >>>>>>>have to happen, and frankly, Apple is being quite
>>>>>> >>>>>>>interestingly enough, very very very very very rude in not
>>>>>> >>>>>>>wanting to help.  I called and spoke with someone at the
>>>>>> >>>>>>>Apple Care Tech Support line, and they actually had the
>>>>>> >>>>>>>guts to sit there and say that because I was blind, they
>>>>>> >>>>>>>refused to help me as a customer.  None the less, I'm
>>>>>> >>>>>>>seriously thinking of taking a complaint to my local ACB
>>>>>> >>>>>>>chapter regarding this, as I'm not much for NFB, but I
>>>>>> >>>>>>>don't wish to get into a political discussion here, so
>>>>>> >>>>>>>thus, I really don't feel comfortable giving any reasons
>>>>>> >>>>>>>why that is on list.  Anyway, we'll get off that subject...
>>>>>> >>>>>>>Yeah, I didn't see any limitations though, but I'll check
>>>>>> >>>>>>>later on today a bit more closely.
>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>>Chris.
>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "BlindTech of
> BlindTechs.Net"
>>>>>> >>>>>>><blindtech@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> >>>>>>>To: <blindcasting@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> >>>>>>>Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 11:31 PM
>>>>>> >>>>>>>Subject: Re: Itunes
>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>>I'm assuming that the set files are coded in a way to where
> they
>>>>>> >>>>>>>won't work with a demo of win eyes?
>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>>BlindTech of BlindTechs.Net
>>>>>> >>>>>>>blindtech@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> >>>>>>>website:
>>>>>> >>>>>>>Visit our website where we offer free email, shell accoiunts,
>>>>>> >>>>>>>shoutcast radio service, online games and more!
>>>>>> >>>>>>>Powered by Unix not Microsoft
>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>>On Jan 6, 2006, at 3:55 PM, Chris Gilland wrote:
>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>>>I have an IPod mini.  I?m wondering if anyone may know where
> to
>>>>>> >>>>>>>>get  a coy of Itunes version 5, as apparently, the set files
> for
>>>>>> >>>>>>>>window  eyes do not work with any other version.  I?ve 
>>>>>> >>>>>>>>checked
>>>>>> >>>>>>>>the
>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Apple  web site, and also have looked on and
>>>>>> >>>>>>>>  I?ve used google as well, with no luck.  I
> really
>>>>>> >>>>>>>>would like to try these set files with my demo copy of Window
>>>>>> >>>>>>>>eyes.  Please let me know if anyone has any ideas.
>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Chris.
>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>- -- >>>>>HolmesGrown Solutions
>>>>>> >>>>>The best solutions for the best price!
>>>>>> >>>>>
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>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >- -- >HolmesGrown Solutions
>>>>>> >The best solutions for the best price!
>>>>>> >
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>>>>> - -- HolmesGrown Solutions
>>>>> The best solutions for the best price!
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