[bksvol-discuss] Re: To Strip Or Not To Strip
- From: "Kenneth A. Cross" <crossk@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 05:39:58 -0400
Well, I think I have been supportive of BookShare. I have on their system
almost fifteen hundred contributed books. But the comments I make on this
list are not responded to by the BookShare staff, and I don't see responses
to others, either, when most questions are posed. I have to say that, from
what I have seen and heard, volunteers are much more supportive of BookShare
than Bookshare is supportive of them.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gerald Hovas" <geraldhovas@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2005 5:45 PM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: To Strip Or Not To Strip
> Mike,
>
> Why should Bookshare be willing to "lobby Kurzweil and all the rest" if
> volunteers aren't willing to lobby them as well?
>
> Also, Just because you don't see any legal issues related to your proposed
> changes doesn't mean that none exist, nor does it mean that there aren't
> technical issues or financial constraints which could prevent those
proposed
> changes from being implemented if they do happen to be legal.
>
> Even if there are no legal, technical, or financial issues related to your
> proposed changes, why should Bookshare wish to implement them for someone
> who constantly makes it known that they do not appreciate their service?
> Keep in mind that even the squeakiest wheel can be ignored when it
> continuously squeaks.
>
> BTW, what happened to
>
> "Yet, we, as users of these books, were very appreciative, grateful and
> thankful to have them and didn't publicly grumble about their
> shortcomings."
>
> "Bookshare, in many ways, is a very similar operation albeit utilizing
> technology of the next generation.
> Perhaps we've forgotten the essence of Bookshare philosophy --
> making reading material available -- and are too much focusing on
> technical issues which end up frustrating many of us even more and, at
> least in my mind, am greatly taking away the enjoyment of making books
> available to others."
>
> Gerald
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Mike Pietruk
> Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2005 7:05 AM
> To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: To Strip Or Not To Strip
>
>
> Kenneth
>
> I couldn't say it any better! BookShare, if it is to survive in the
> long-term, has to make book submitting and the end product for its
> users straightforward, simple and what people want and need.
> If it cannot, submitters will not submit, customers may pay once and not
> renew due to dissatisfaction, and financial contributors will see what
> they don't want to see and either stop supporting or not be interested in
> supporting.
> It's up to Bookshare/Benetech to do the lobbying with Kurzweil and all the
> rest and not for us volunteers.
>
> My first interest in volunteering for
> Bookshare was to bring about more availability of Christian-related
> non-fiction and fiction books. Hence, if time and technology show that
> there is a better avenue for this for whatever reason, I, and likely
> others, will turn our support and energy to that entity.
> Bookshare, like any first attempt at something, provides a learning curve
> for others watching and considering such enterprises.
> Clearly, BookShare's most significant problem is its shoestring operation
> which doesn't allow it the ability to make necessary improvements, closely
> work with volunteers, work with 3rd parties to improve auxiliary products,
> provide volunteers with tools, and all the rest.
> The shame is that we will likely never know what a financially overflowing
> Bookshare could do as that would mean more paid employees doing work, an
> online system which would evolve into robustness, and all the rest.
>
> The real hope is that, over time, there will be no need for a Bookshare
> because
> publishers will be able to deliver electronic texts along aside their
> printed books simultaneouslly in a form blind users can handle
> conveniently.
> Then, at some point, a generation or 2 down the line, NLS, RFB&D, services
> such as Bookshare may become dinosaurs or, if they exist, be radically
> different from what they are today.
>
> It's often hard to see those changes when we're in the midst of them. But
> think, for example, how much use blind patrons can now actually make of
> their public library. Regular books can be borrowed for scanning, audio
> book collections are growing, and, with devices such as Freedom Box, a
> patron can bring this with them to use the library's publicly available
> computers.
> And thanks to the library catalogs more and more being online, blind as
> well as sighted customers can do their searching from home.
>
> 30 years ago, much of this would have been viewed as fanciful science
> fiction and beyond practical reality. Well, it is more and more here; and
> it wouldn't surprise me that a file sharing system such as BookShare will
> evolve into or be replaced by something far more efficient in the coming
> decades.
> We don't know what that will exactly be, but the march of technology and
> human ingenuity and entrepreneurship will take the current learning
> experiences and build or remold a better mousetrap, so to speak.
>
>
>
> Returning this to the original subject, it's not just having page numbers
> that is important, it is having the right ones and being able to verify
> them by viewing from the text rather than synthesized by an automated tool
> which already is viewed as being significantly flawed by many.
>
> The first step in this process would be including, in the file bundle of
> Daisy, the book as validated prior to in-house massaging.
> Perhaps even more, adding another file which was the original submission
> itself.
>
> I don't see any legal issues here as accessing those files would require a
> password much as getting the .opf and .htm files that are already part of
> the package.
>
>
>
> On Fri, 7 Oct 2005, Kenneth A. Cross wrote:
>
> > The translation is that, since BookShare will listen to no one, we
should
> > take our problems to others. I have all the devices you mentioned, but
I
> > just can't find the plethora of page numbers you find. I guess I don't
> read
> > such advanced books.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Gerald Hovas" <geraldhovas@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 4:52 PM
> > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: To Strip Or Not To Strip
> >
> >
> > > Kenneth,
> > >
> > > I don't know if we have many options at this time. I would expect
Peter
> > to
> > > be better informed than I am, though, so maybe he can answer your
> > question.
> > >
> > > The only two DAISY readers that I know of other than K-1000 and
OpenBook
> > are
> > > Victor Reader Soft and FS Reader. Personally, I don't like using
Victor
> > > Reader Soft, but I have seen it display page numbers, and it can be
> > > downloaded from Bookshare. I've never tried FS Reader, so I don't
know
> > how
> > > Freedom Scientific handles page numbers.
> > >
> > > Personally, I prefer to forgo DAISY at this time in favor of the HTML
> file
> > > that can be unpacked with the DAISY files. Since that file is merely
an
> > > HTML file, it can be read using Internet Explorer and JAWS. I like
> being
> > > able to skim passages in books that I've already read using JAWS to
fast
> > > forward to the next paragraph. The other nice thing about it is that
> I've
> > > never seen a book which doesn't have page numbers throughout the text.
> > > Occasionally I see two sets of page numbers, though. My guess is that
> > this
> > > is caused by the Stripper not being able to recognize page numbers, so
> it
> > > assigns page numbers based on a page's location in a file, which, as
we
> > all
> > > know, may not synch with the page numbers in the book since many books
> > begin
> > > numbering the pages with the first page of the prologue or chapter 1.
> > >
> > > If many of you are using K-1000 to read the DAISY files as I suspect,
> and
> > > you aren't able to see page numbers throughout the text as you would
> like,
> > > then I'd suggest making your wish known to Kurzweil.
> > >
> > > Gerald
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Kenneth A.
> > > Cross
> > > Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 2:02 PM
> > > To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: To Strip Or Not To Strip
> > >
> > >
> > > I have asked before, and will use this communication to ask again,
just
> > what
> > > do I buy to read these daisy files with the page numbers and all. As
> soon
> > > as I get an answer, I will buy whatever brand is recommended to me and
> > will
> > > report on my joy at getting all these correct page numbers. Somebody
> tell
> > > me what to buy.
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Tracy Carcione" <carcione@xxxxxxxxx>
> > > To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 1:29 PM
> > > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: To Strip Or Not To Strip
> > >
> > >
> > > > Jana,
> > > > Sorry to hear you're an evacuee. But what dedication, to bring your
> > > > Bookshare stuff with you!
> > > >
> > > > You seem to be saying that you are protecting page numbers with
stars.
> > > You
> > > > should not. The stripper needs the page numbers to be recognizable
so
> > it
> > > > can put them in the file for Daisy readers (us non-Daisy users are
> just
> > > out
> > > > in the cold.) As I understand it, the page number must be on the
> first,
> > > or
> > > > last, line of a page, with a blank line below it, or above it, if
it's
> > on
> > > > the bottom. Then, the stripper is supposed to recognize it and,
yes,
> > > strip
> > > > it, putting it into some place for Daisy to see.
> > > >
> > > > What I do with headers, as a validator, is cut out the text portion,
> and
> > > > leave the page number, then make sure the number is at the top, with
a
> > > blank
> > > > line under it, or at the bottom, with a blank line before it. Clear
> as
> > > Mud?
> > > >
> > > > What you did with chapter headings sounds fine.
> > > > Tracy
> > > >
> > > > At 11:18 PM 10/6/05 -0500, you wrote:
> > > > >Hi, all! Okay, so life as an evacuee is getting a bit boring, and
I
> > > > thought I'd have a little fun with the subject line. <Smile>
> > > > >
> > > > >I'm about to submit a book which I've been working on for a while.
I
> > > have
> > > > left the headings in the book for now, and I've protected the
chapter
> > > > headings and page numbers with asterisks. The chapter headings have
> > > > asterisks on the very top line of the page, followed by a blank
line.
> > The
> > > > page numbers, which are at the bottom of the page, are followed by a
> > blank
> > > > line and then about five asterisks.
> > > > >
> > > > >My question is actually twofold, I guess. Will this be enough to
> keep
> > > the
> > > > stripper from going too far? If so, should I go ahead and strip the
> > > > headers, replacing them with asterisks? I know we've about
discussed
> > this
> > > > one to death, but since I don't have all of the BookShare posts on
my
> > > > laptop, and since I've had just a few things on my mind other than
> > > Bookshare
> > > > for the past week and a half, I thought I'd see if someone could
> refresh
> > > my
> > > > memory. Thanks!
> > > > >
> > > > >Jana
> > > > >
> > > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > >Jana Jackson
> > > > >Director Of Training
> > > > >Indigo Logix, LLC
> > > > >Direct: (615)661-5254
> > > > >E-mail: jana@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > >Web Site: http://www.indigo-logix.com
> > > > >
> > > >
> >-----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > >For information about Jana's music ministry, visit her web site at
> > > > >http://www.janajackson.com/.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
> > > > ____________________________________________
> > > > >Need to plan a vacation or business trip? Jana's new on-line
travel
> > > > agency, JJM Travel, offers some of the best deals on the Internet
for
> > > > airfares, hotels, last-minute getaways, and more! For all of your
> > travel
> > > > needs, visit http://1793084.prttravel.com. To log in, type the ID
> > number
> > > > 1793084. To learn how you too can save up to 90% on all of your
> travel,
> > > > visit http://jjm.gttrends.net. Jana is happy to answer any
questions
> > you
> > > > might have concerning this exciting opportunity to work and have fun
> at
> > > the
> > > > same time. If you have questions, feel free to e-mail her at
> > > > jana@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > ><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
> > > > ><HTML><HEAD>
> > > > ><META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html;
> charset=iso-8859-1">
> > > > ><META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2604" name=GENERATOR>
> > > > ><STYLE></STYLE>
> > > > ></HEAD>
> > > > ><BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
> > > > ><DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hi, all! Okay, so life as an
> evacuee
> > > is
> > > > >getting a bit boring, and I thought I'd have a little fun with the
> > > subject
> > > > line.
> > > > ><Smile></FONT></DIV>
> > > > ><DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
> > > > ><DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I'm about to submit a book which I've
> been
> > > > working
> > > > >on for a while. I have left the headings in the book for now,
> and
> > > I've
> > > > >protected the chapter headings and page numbers with
asterisks.
> > The
> > > > >chapter headings have asterisks on the very top line of the page,
> > > followed
> > > > by a
> > > > >blank line. The page numbers, which are at the bottom of the
> > page,
> > > are
> > > > >followed by a blank line and then about five asterisks.
> > > </FONT></DIV>
> > > > ><DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
> > > > ><DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>My question is actually twofold, I
> > > guess.
> > > > >Will this be enough to keep the stripper from going too far?
If
> > so,
> > > > should
> > > > >I go ahead and strip the headers, replacing them with
> asterisks?
> > I
> > > know
> > > > >we've about discussed this one to death, but since I don't have all
> of
> > > the
> > > > >BookShare posts on my laptop, and since I've had just a few things
on
> > my
> > > mind
> > > > >other than Bookshare for the past week and a half, I thought I'd
see
> if
> > > > someone
> > > > >could refresh my memory. Thanks!</FONT></DIV>
> > > > ><DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
> > > > ><DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Jana</FONT></DIV>
> > > > ><DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
> > > > ><DIV><FONT face=Arial
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>size=2>-------------------------------------------------------------------<
> > > > BR>Jana
> > > > >Jackson<BR>Director Of Training<BR>Indigo Logix, LLC<BR>Direct:
> > > > >(615)661-5254<BR>E-mail: <A
> > > >
>href="mailto:jana@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx";>jana@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx</A><BR>Web
> > > Site: <A
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>href="http://www.indigo-logix.com";>http://www.indigo-logix.com</A></FONT></
> > > DIV>
> > > > ><DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
> > > > ><DIV><FONT face=Arial
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>size=2>--------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > ---<BR>For
> > > > >information about Jana's music ministry, visit her web site
at<BR><A
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>href="http://www.janajackson.com/";>http://www.janajackson.com/</A>.</FONT><
> > > > /DIV>
> > > > ><DIV> </DIV>
> > > > ><DIV><FONT face=Arial
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>size=2>____________________________________________________________________
> > > > ___________________________________________________<BR>Need
> > > > >to plan a vacation or business trip? Jana's new on-line
travel
> > > > agency, JJM
> > > > >Travel, offers some of the best deals on the Internet for airfares,
> > > hotels,
> > > > >last-minute getaways, and more! For all of your travel needs,
> > visit
> > > <A
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>href="http://1793084.prttravel.com";>http://1793084.prttravel.com</A>.
> > > To
> > > > >log in, type the ID number 1793084. To learn how you too can
> save
> > > up to
> > > > >90% on all of your travel, visit <A
> > > > >href="http://jjm.gttrends.net";>http://jjm.gttrends.net</A>.
> Jana
> > is
> > > > happy
> > > > >to answer any questions you might have concerning this exciting
> > > opportunity to
> > > > >work and have fun at the same time. If you have questions,
feel
> > > free to
> > > > >e-mail her at <A
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>href="mailto:jana@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx";>jana@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx</A>.<BR></FONT></DI
> > > > V></BODY></HTML>
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to
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> >
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> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to
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> > of
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> > >
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> >
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