[bksvol-discuss] Re: To Strip Or Not To Strip
- From: "Gerald Hovas" <geraldhovas@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 16:45:22 -0500
Mike,
Why should Bookshare be willing to "lobby Kurzweil and all the rest" if
volunteers aren't willing to lobby them as well?
Also, Just because you don't see any legal issues related to your proposed
changes doesn't mean that none exist, nor does it mean that there aren't
technical issues or financial constraints which could prevent those proposed
changes from being implemented if they do happen to be legal.
Even if there are no legal, technical, or financial issues related to your
proposed changes, why should Bookshare wish to implement them for someone
who constantly makes it known that they do not appreciate their service?
Keep in mind that even the squeakiest wheel can be ignored when it
continuously squeaks.
BTW, what happened to
"Yet, we, as users of these books, were very appreciative, grateful and
thankful to have them and didn't publicly grumble about their
shortcomings."
"Bookshare, in many ways, is a very similar operation albeit utilizing
technology of the next generation.
Perhaps we've forgotten the essence of Bookshare philosophy --
making reading material available -- and are too much focusing on
technical issues which end up frustrating many of us even more and, at
least in my mind, am greatly taking away the enjoyment of making books
available to others."
Gerald
-----Original Message-----
From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Mike Pietruk
Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2005 7:05 AM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: To Strip Or Not To Strip
Kenneth
I couldn't say it any better! BookShare, if it is to survive in the
long-term, has to make book submitting and the end product for its
users straightforward, simple and what people want and need.
If it cannot, submitters will not submit, customers may pay once and not
renew due to dissatisfaction, and financial contributors will see what
they don't want to see and either stop supporting or not be interested in
supporting.
It's up to Bookshare/Benetech to do the lobbying with Kurzweil and all the
rest and not for us volunteers.
My first interest in volunteering for
Bookshare was to bring about more availability of Christian-related
non-fiction and fiction books. Hence, if time and technology show that
there is a better avenue for this for whatever reason, I, and likely
others, will turn our support and energy to that entity.
Bookshare, like any first attempt at something, provides a learning curve
for others watching and considering such enterprises.
Clearly, BookShare's most significant problem is its shoestring operation
which doesn't allow it the ability to make necessary improvements, closely
work with volunteers, work with 3rd parties to improve auxiliary products,
provide volunteers with tools, and all the rest.
The shame is that we will likely never know what a financially overflowing
Bookshare could do as that would mean more paid employees doing work, an
online system which would evolve into robustness, and all the rest.
The real hope is that, over time, there will be no need for a Bookshare
because
publishers will be able to deliver electronic texts along aside their
printed books simultaneouslly in a form blind users can handle
conveniently.
Then, at some point, a generation or 2 down the line, NLS, RFB&D, services
such as Bookshare may become dinosaurs or, if they exist, be radically
different from what they are today.
It's often hard to see those changes when we're in the midst of them. But
think, for example, how much use blind patrons can now actually make of
their public library. Regular books can be borrowed for scanning, audio
book collections are growing, and, with devices such as Freedom Box, a
patron can bring this with them to use the library's publicly available
computers.
And thanks to the library catalogs more and more being online, blind as
well as sighted customers can do their searching from home.
30 years ago, much of this would have been viewed as fanciful science
fiction and beyond practical reality. Well, it is more and more here; and
it wouldn't surprise me that a file sharing system such as BookShare will
evolve into or be replaced by something far more efficient in the coming
decades.
We don't know what that will exactly be, but the march of technology and
human ingenuity and entrepreneurship will take the current learning
experiences and build or remold a better mousetrap, so to speak.
Returning this to the original subject, it's not just having page numbers
that is important, it is having the right ones and being able to verify
them by viewing from the text rather than synthesized by an automated tool
which already is viewed as being significantly flawed by many.
The first step in this process would be including, in the file bundle of
Daisy, the book as validated prior to in-house massaging.
Perhaps even more, adding another file which was the original submission
itself.
I don't see any legal issues here as accessing those files would require a
password much as getting the .opf and .htm files that are already part of
the package.
On Fri, 7 Oct 2005, Kenneth A. Cross wrote:
> The translation is that, since BookShare will listen to no one, we should
> take our problems to others. I have all the devices you mentioned, but I
> just can't find the plethora of page numbers you find. I guess I don't
read
> such advanced books.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gerald Hovas" <geraldhovas@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 4:52 PM
> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: To Strip Or Not To Strip
>
>
> > Kenneth,
> >
> > I don't know if we have many options at this time. I would expect Peter
> to
> > be better informed than I am, though, so maybe he can answer your
> question.
> >
> > The only two DAISY readers that I know of other than K-1000 and OpenBook
> are
> > Victor Reader Soft and FS Reader. Personally, I don't like using Victor
> > Reader Soft, but I have seen it display page numbers, and it can be
> > downloaded from Bookshare. I've never tried FS Reader, so I don't know
> how
> > Freedom Scientific handles page numbers.
> >
> > Personally, I prefer to forgo DAISY at this time in favor of the HTML
file
> > that can be unpacked with the DAISY files. Since that file is merely an
> > HTML file, it can be read using Internet Explorer and JAWS. I like
being
> > able to skim passages in books that I've already read using JAWS to fast
> > forward to the next paragraph. The other nice thing about it is that
I've
> > never seen a book which doesn't have page numbers throughout the text.
> > Occasionally I see two sets of page numbers, though. My guess is that
> this
> > is caused by the Stripper not being able to recognize page numbers, so
it
> > assigns page numbers based on a page's location in a file, which, as we
> all
> > know, may not synch with the page numbers in the book since many books
> begin
> > numbering the pages with the first page of the prologue or chapter 1.
> >
> > If many of you are using K-1000 to read the DAISY files as I suspect,
and
> > you aren't able to see page numbers throughout the text as you would
like,
> > then I'd suggest making your wish known to Kurzweil.
> >
> > Gerald
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Kenneth A.
> > Cross
> > Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 2:02 PM
> > To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: To Strip Or Not To Strip
> >
> >
> > I have asked before, and will use this communication to ask again, just
> what
> > do I buy to read these daisy files with the page numbers and all. As
soon
> > as I get an answer, I will buy whatever brand is recommended to me and
> will
> > report on my joy at getting all these correct page numbers. Somebody
tell
> > me what to buy.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Tracy Carcione" <carcione@xxxxxxxxx>
> > To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 1:29 PM
> > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: To Strip Or Not To Strip
> >
> >
> > > Jana,
> > > Sorry to hear you're an evacuee. But what dedication, to bring your
> > > Bookshare stuff with you!
> > >
> > > You seem to be saying that you are protecting page numbers with stars.
> > You
> > > should not. The stripper needs the page numbers to be recognizable so
> it
> > > can put them in the file for Daisy readers (us non-Daisy users are
just
> > out
> > > in the cold.) As I understand it, the page number must be on the
first,
> > or
> > > last, line of a page, with a blank line below it, or above it, if it's
> on
> > > the bottom. Then, the stripper is supposed to recognize it and, yes,
> > strip
> > > it, putting it into some place for Daisy to see.
> > >
> > > What I do with headers, as a validator, is cut out the text portion,
and
> > > leave the page number, then make sure the number is at the top, with a
> > blank
> > > line under it, or at the bottom, with a blank line before it. Clear
as
> > Mud?
> > >
> > > What you did with chapter headings sounds fine.
> > > Tracy
> > >
> > > At 11:18 PM 10/6/05 -0500, you wrote:
> > > >Hi, all! Okay, so life as an evacuee is getting a bit boring, and I
> > > thought I'd have a little fun with the subject line. <Smile>
> > > >
> > > >I'm about to submit a book which I've been working on for a while. I
> > have
> > > left the headings in the book for now, and I've protected the chapter
> > > headings and page numbers with asterisks. The chapter headings have
> > > asterisks on the very top line of the page, followed by a blank line.
> The
> > > page numbers, which are at the bottom of the page, are followed by a
> blank
> > > line and then about five asterisks.
> > > >
> > > >My question is actually twofold, I guess. Will this be enough to
keep
> > the
> > > stripper from going too far? If so, should I go ahead and strip the
> > > headers, replacing them with asterisks? I know we've about discussed
> this
> > > one to death, but since I don't have all of the BookShare posts on my
> > > laptop, and since I've had just a few things on my mind other than
> > Bookshare
> > > for the past week and a half, I thought I'd see if someone could
refresh
> > my
> > > memory. Thanks!
> > > >
> > > >Jana
> > > >
> > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >Jana Jackson
> > > >Director Of Training
> > > >Indigo Logix, LLC
> > > >Direct: (615)661-5254
> > > >E-mail: jana@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > >Web Site: http://www.indigo-logix.com
> > > >
> > >
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >For information about Jana's music ministry, visit her web site at
> > > >http://www.janajackson.com/.
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
> > > ____________________________________________
> > > >Need to plan a vacation or business trip? Jana's new on-line travel
> > > agency, JJM Travel, offers some of the best deals on the Internet for
> > > airfares, hotels, last-minute getaways, and more! For all of your
> travel
> > > needs, visit http://1793084.prttravel.com. To log in, type the ID
> number
> > > 1793084. To learn how you too can save up to 90% on all of your
travel,
> > > visit http://jjm.gttrends.net. Jana is happy to answer any questions
> you
> > > might have concerning this exciting opportunity to work and have fun
at
> > the
> > > same time. If you have questions, feel free to e-mail her at
> > > jana@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > ><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
> > > ><HTML><HEAD>
> > > ><META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html;
charset=iso-8859-1">
> > > ><META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2604" name=GENERATOR>
> > > ><STYLE></STYLE>
> > > ></HEAD>
> > > ><BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
> > > ><DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hi, all! Okay, so life as an
evacuee
> > is
> > > >getting a bit boring, and I thought I'd have a little fun with the
> > subject
> > > line.
> > > ><Smile></FONT></DIV>
> > > ><DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
> > > ><DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I'm about to submit a book which I've
been
> > > working
> > > >on for a while. I have left the headings in the book for now,
and
> > I've
> > > >protected the chapter headings and page numbers with asterisks.
> The
> > > >chapter headings have asterisks on the very top line of the page,
> > followed
> > > by a
> > > >blank line. The page numbers, which are at the bottom of the
> page,
> > are
> > > >followed by a blank line and then about five asterisks.
> > </FONT></DIV>
> > > ><DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
> > > ><DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>My question is actually twofold, I
> > guess.
> > > >Will this be enough to keep the stripper from going too far? If
> so,
> > > should
> > > >I go ahead and strip the headers, replacing them with
asterisks?
> I
> > know
> > > >we've about discussed this one to death, but since I don't have all
of
> > the
> > > >BookShare posts on my laptop, and since I've had just a few things on
> my
> > mind
> > > >other than Bookshare for the past week and a half, I thought I'd see
if
> > > someone
> > > >could refresh my memory. Thanks!</FONT></DIV>
> > > ><DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
> > > ><DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Jana</FONT></DIV>
> > > ><DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
> > > ><DIV><FONT face=Arial
> > >
> >
>
>size=2>-------------------------------------------------------------------<
> > > BR>Jana
> > > >Jackson<BR>Director Of Training<BR>Indigo Logix, LLC<BR>Direct:
> > > >(615)661-5254<BR>E-mail: <A
> > > >href="mailto:jana@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx";>jana@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx</A><BR>Web
> > Site: <A
> > >
> >
>
>href="http://www.indigo-logix.com";>http://www.indigo-logix.com</A></FONT></
> > DIV>
> > > ><DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
> > > ><DIV><FONT face=Arial
> > >
> >
>
>size=2>--------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > ---<BR>For
> > > >information about Jana's music ministry, visit her web site at<BR><A
> > >
> >
>
>href="http://www.janajackson.com/";>http://www.janajackson.com/</A>.</FONT><
> > > /DIV>
> > > ><DIV> </DIV>
> > > ><DIV><FONT face=Arial
> > >
> >
>
>size=2>____________________________________________________________________
> > > ___________________________________________________<BR>Need
> > > >to plan a vacation or business trip? Jana's new on-line travel
> > > agency, JJM
> > > >Travel, offers some of the best deals on the Internet for airfares,
> > hotels,
> > > >last-minute getaways, and more! For all of your travel needs,
> visit
> > <A
> > >
> >
>
>href="http://1793084.prttravel.com";>http://1793084.prttravel.com</A>.
> > To
> > > >log in, type the ID number 1793084. To learn how you too can
save
> > up to
> > > >90% on all of your travel, visit <A
> > > >href="http://jjm.gttrends.net";>http://jjm.gttrends.net</A>.
Jana
> is
> > > happy
> > > >to answer any questions you might have concerning this exciting
> > opportunity to
> > > >work and have fun at the same time. If you have questions, feel
> > free to
> > > >e-mail her at <A
> > >
> >
>
>href="mailto:jana@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx";>jana@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx</A>.<BR></FONT></DI
> > > V></BODY></HTML>
> > > >
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to
> > > bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. To get a
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>
> > of available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the subject
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> > >
> > >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to
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> > put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. To get a list
> of
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> >
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> >
>
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