no, one-dimensional <smile>--(the "books" I validate grin) I don't know where they've come from in the files I validated, but often the spaces are there. Usually, though instead of em dashes there are double dashes or hyphens separated by spaces--but the file I'm working on now did have the spaces between the em dash and the words on either side. I globally replaced them. Glad I didn't have to change everything to two dashes. smile Cindy --- Evan Reese <mentat1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > Is this in contrast to two-dimensional books? > <smile> > > I know I have seen this space m dash space combo > somewhere, but I can't > recall where. I think it may have been in some > books I received directly > from an author, but I can't check now, as I fixed > all the m dashes with > double hyphens. If they occured in some of the > books you validated, I don't > know where they would have come from if not from the > original text. I don't > think the scanner would just put spaces around > hyphens or m dashes, but who > knows? Is there some variability in the way these > things are printed? > However, it is true that - at least most of the time > - these are printed > with no space between the m dash and the surrounding > words. > > Hyphens and m dashes may be hard to tell apart with > sight, but my OpenBook > seems to be able to recognize the difference. I > know because m dashes are > displayed peculiarly on my Pac Mate, a regular > hyphen followed by the letter > t of all things. I forget what the voice says, > something with a dot in it. > A little strange. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Cindy" <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx> > To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2006 3:46 PM > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: M dash, how to make > it? > > > > Hmmm. Sorry, but in the print books I've worked > on, > > including the one I'm working on now, there are no > > spaces between the em dash and the words. In some > of > > the scans i've valdiated there have been, but it's > > been hard to tell of those were em dashes or > hhyphens. > > As Lissi says, it's hard to see the difference, > even > > with sight. > > I have four solid three-dimensional books sitting > on > > my desk, and not one of them has spaces on either > side > > of the em dash. smile > > > > Cindy > > > > --- Evan Reese <mentat1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > >> I just realized that I was wrong about one thing: > I > >> do know what the > >> Braille translator does with them. I am > >> concentrating on finals right now, > >> and I had forgotten that I did look at one book - > >> excellently scanned, but > >> where in the print text you would see a space m > dash > >> space such as > >> conventionally used for putting in an aside in > the > >> middle of a sentence, the > >> brf file just has a hyphen with no spaces between > >> the words. Apparently, > >> noone replaced them and that is what happens. I > >> just add in the extra dash > >> as I read along so it looks the way it should. > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Evan Reese" <mentat1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > >> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > >> Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2006 12:35 PM > >> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: M dash, how to make > >> it? > >> > >> > >> >I don't know what the Braille translator does > with > >> them. As I recall, it > >> >either doesn't display them properly, or it only > >> puts in one dash instead > >> >of two, which is what you should have in the > >> Braille file. I do know that > >> >in books I scan and read as rtf files, they are > not > >> properly displayed on > >> >my Pac Mate. I generally convert them to double > >> dashes with a quick search > >> >and replace all in Word before sending them up > to > >> Bookshare. > >> > > >> > I'm not changing that. I don't see why Braille > >> readers should have to > >> > suffer through crummy-looking text because > someday > >> some future software > >> > upgrade just might fix the problem - assuming > >> there is one. > >> > > >> > > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > From: "Scott Blanks" <scottsjb@xxxxxxxxx> > >> > To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > >> > Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2006 11:31 AM > >> > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: M dash, how to > make > >> it? > >> > > >> > > >> >> I'm curious though, which comes out better in > >> braille: m dash, or double > >> >> dash? Does it matter? I seem to specifically > >> remember several people on > >> >> this list encouraging the conversion of m > dashes > >> to double dashes for the > >> >> benefit of braille readers. > >> >> > >> >> Can anybody comment? > >> >> > >> >> Scott > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> >> From: "Pratik patel" <pratikp1@xxxxxxxxx> > >> >> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > >> >> Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2006 10:39 AM > >> >> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: M dash, how to > make > >> it? > >> >> > >> >> > >> >>> Cindy, > >> >>> > >> >>> Please stick with the M-dash character when > you > >> enter it. The automated > >> >>> tools may not support the proper conversion, > >> but, we have to make sure > >> >>> that > >> >>> future versions of those tools do support > such > >> conversions. The em-dash > >> >>> character is a slightly shorter character > than > >> the double dash (--). I > >> >>> know > >> >>> we have been working with the formatting to > >> satisfy the stripper > >> >>> requirement; but we should try to take a > >> conservative approach when > >> >>> editting > >> >>> the original text especially when it comes to > >> formatting. In some > >> >>> cases, we > >> >>> might have to move words around or make > slight > >> font changes but we > >> >>> should > >> >>> avoid making other changes. > >> >>> > >> >>> Pratik > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> Pratik Patel > >> >>> Director, CUNY Assistive technology Services > >> (CATS) > >> >>> The City University of New York > >> >>> pratikp1@xxxxxxxxx > >> >>> > >> >>> -----Original Message----- > >> >>> From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > >> >>> [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] > On > >> Behalf Of Cindy > >> >>> Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2006 12:55 AM > >> >>> To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > >> >>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: M dash, how to > >> make it? > >> >>> > >> >>> Is Lissi right in what she says about two > dashes > >> >>> instead of an em dash being easier to read in > >> braile? > >> >>> What about with Daisy? What should I be > doing, > >> em dash > >> >>> or double dash? > >> >>> > >> >>> Cindy > >> >>> > >> >>> --- Estelnalissi <airadil@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > wrote: > >> >>> > >> >>>> Dear Jake, > >> >>>> > >> >>>> Your directions worked perfectly! I'm > >> levitating! We > >> >>>> all know I'm not the > >> >>>> fastest barge on the canal when it comes to > >> >>>> computers, but your instructions > >> >>>> put those m dashes exactly where I needed > them. > >> >>>> > >> >>>> The M dash will be especially easy to > remember > >> >>>> because it's insert 4 as you > >> >>>> said for jaws, and then tapping e 4 times to > >> reach m > >> >>>> dash and enter not even > >> >>>> having to go to OK! > >> >>>> > >> >>>> Also exciting is the fact I saw a slew of > items > >> >>>> listed in the insert 4 > >> >>>> dialogue box which may turn out to be > useful!! > >> >>>> > >> >>>> The book I'm working on is an Irish memoir. > >> Instead > >> >>>> of using quotes or > >> >>>> apostrophes, there's a dash or m dash before > >> all > >> >>>> quotes and no mark to show > >> >>>> the end of the quote. It's plain in print > >> because > >> >>>> quotes are inserted > >> >>>> farther than the narrative, but I think > braille > >> >>>> readers will quickly catch > >> >>>> the pattern. > >> >>>> > >> >>>> While blissfully making my corrections with > the > >> new > >> >>>> command, I noticed that > >> >>>> the scanner read these unique indications of > >> quotes > >> >>>> as dash about half of > >> >>>> the time and M dash the other half with some > >> minus > >> >>>> signs thrown in for > >> >>>> variety. The mixture was random so I made a > >> command > >> >>>> decision to use the > >> >>>> simpler dash to indicate quotes. I'm on page > 27 > >> now > >> >>>> and all quotes are > >> >>>> uniformly indicated with a single dash, > easier > >> for > >> >>>> me and the reader. > >> >>>> > >> >>>> By the way, when this book is approved, I'm > >> going to > >> >>>> mention that while > >> >>>> anyone interested in quirky humor, Irish > >> culture and > >> >>>> recalling life from > >> >>>> 1959 through 1960 something will like this > >> book, but > >> >>>> the POV, and the > >> >>>> father, a kind of hero to the author will > >> really > >> >>>> appeal to the gritty guys > >> >>>> among the members. I'm entranced, but > regularly > >> >>>> amused in spite of myself > >> >>>> and grossed out, too. > >> >>>> > >> >>>> Always with love, > >> >>>> > >> >>>> Lissi > >> >>>> > >> >>>> Thanks for helping me to enjoy another break > >> >>>> through! > >> >>>> > >> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >> >>>> From: "Jake Brownell" <jabrown@xxxxxxxxx> > >> >>>> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > >> >>>> Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 6:52 PM > >> >>>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: M dash, how to > >> make > >> >>>> it? > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > Hi Lissi, > >> >>>> > There are two easy ways to insert an > >> em-dash > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> > If you're using Microsoft Word, you can > press > >> >>>> CTRL+ALT+the minus sign on > >> >>>> > the numpad. > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> > If you're using JAWS, you can press > INSERT+4 > >> (the > >> >>>> 4 on the regular > >> >>>> > keyboard) and you'll get a list of > symbols. > >> Press > >> >>>> the letter e a few times > >> >>>> > and you'll find em dash, then press enter. > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> > That's all there is to it. > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> > Jake > >> >>>> > ----- Original Message ----- > >> >>>> > From: "Estelnalissi" > <airadil@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > >> >>>> > To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > >> >>>> > Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 5:16 PM > >> >>>> > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] M dash, how to > make > >> it? > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> >> Dear Volunteer Friends, > >> >>>> >> > >> >>>> >> There was a discussion here about making > >> that > >> >>>> long dash called m dash by > >> >>>> >> Jaws using microsoft word while > validating > >> an RTF > >> >>>> file. How to make it > >> >>>> >> with other programs might have been > >> mentioned, > >> >>>> too. > >> >>>> >> > >> >>>> >> What I mostly remember is that it was > >> suggested > >> >>>> that just using 2 dashes > >> >>>> >> comes out better for the braille reader > in > >> >>>> Bookshare's BRF file of a > >> >>>> >> book. So, I decided that when I had a > >> choice, I'd > >> >>>> use 2 dashes. > >> >>>> >> > >> >>>> >> However, the book I'm validating is > already > >> >>>> packed with m dashes, so if I > >> >>>> >> fix one, I thought it should match them. > >> >>>> >> > >> >>>> >> How do I make an m dash? Occasionally > jaws > >> calls > >> >>>> an m dash a minus, and I > >> >>>> >> want to replace the minus signs with m > >> dashes. If > >> >>>> anyone can point me to > >> >>>> >> the answer or remind me how to do this, > I'd > >> >>>> appreciate it and save the > >> >>>> >> information in my Bookshare Tips file. > >> >>>> >> > >> >>>> >> While I wait to hear about this, I'll > mark > >> the > >> >>>> spot and go on. I'm only > >> >>>> >> on page 12, but this book really > motivates > >> me to > >> >>>> make good progress. > >> >>>> >> > >> >>>> >> Hope all of your current endeavors are > going > >> >>>> swimmingly. - Smile > >> >>>> >> > >> >>>> >> Always with love, > >> >>>> >> > >> >>>> >> Lissi > >> >>>> >> To unsubscribe from this list send a > blank > >> Email > >> >>>> to > >> >>>> >> bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > >> >>>> >> put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in > the > >> >>>> subject line. 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