[bksvol-discuss] Re: M dash, how to make it?

  • From: Cindy <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2006 15:46:13 -0700 (PDT)

Hmmm. Sorry, but in the print books I've worked on,
including the one I'm working on now, there are no
spaces between the em dash and the words. In some of
the scans i've valdiated there have been, but it's
been hard to tell of those were em dashes or hhyphens.
As Lissi says, it's hard to see the difference, even
with sight. 
I have four solid three-dimensional books sitting on
my desk, and not one of them has spaces on either side
of the em dash. smile

Cindy

--- Evan Reese <mentat1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> I just realized that I was wrong about one thing:  I
> do know what the 
> Braille translator does with them.  I am
> concentrating on finals right now, 
> and I had forgotten that I did look at one book -
> excellently scanned, but 
> where in the print text you would see a space m dash
> space such as 
> conventionally used for putting in an aside in the
> middle of a sentence, the 
> brf file just has a hyphen with no spaces between
> the words.  Apparently, 
> noone replaced them and that is what happens.  I
> just add in the extra dash 
> as I read along so it looks the way it should.
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Evan Reese" <mentat1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2006 12:35 PM
> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: M dash, how to make
> it?
> 
> 
> >I don't know what the Braille translator does with
> them.  As I recall,  it 
> >either doesn't display them properly, or it only
> puts in one dash instead 
> >of two, which is what you should have in the
> Braille file.  I do know that 
> >in books I scan and read as rtf files, they are not
> properly displayed on 
> >my Pac Mate.  I generally convert them to double
> dashes with a quick search 
> >and replace all in Word before sending them up to
> Bookshare.
> >
> > I'm not changing that.  I don't see why Braille
> readers should have to 
> > suffer through crummy-looking text because someday
> some future software 
> > upgrade just might fix the problem - assuming
> there is one.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Scott Blanks" <scottsjb@xxxxxxxxx>
> > To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2006 11:31 AM
> > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: M dash, how to make
> it?
> >
> >
> >> I'm curious though, which comes out better in
> braille: m dash, or double 
> >> dash? Does it matter? I seem to specifically
> remember several people on 
> >> this list encouraging the conversion of m dashes
> to double dashes for the 
> >> benefit of braille readers.
> >>
> >> Can anybody comment?
> >>
> >> Scott
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message ----- 
> >> From: "Pratik patel" <pratikp1@xxxxxxxxx>
> >> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2006 10:39 AM
> >> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: M dash, how to make
> it?
> >>
> >>
> >>> Cindy,
> >>>
> >>> Please stick with the M-dash character when you
> enter it.  The automated
> >>> tools may not support the proper conversion,
> but, we have to make sure 
> >>> that
> >>> future versions of those tools do support such
> conversions.  The em-dash
> >>> character is a slightly shorter character than
> the double dash (--).  I 
> >>> know
> >>> we have been working with the formatting to
> satisfy the stripper
> >>> requirement; but we should try to take a
> conservative approach when 
> >>> editting
> >>> the original text especially when it comes to
> formatting.  In some 
> >>> cases, we
> >>> might have to move words around or make slight
> font changes but we 
> >>> should
> >>> avoid making other changes.
> >>>
> >>> Pratik
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Pratik Patel
> >>> Director, CUNY Assistive technology Services
> (CATS)
> >>> The City University of New York
> >>> pratikp1@xxxxxxxxx
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>> [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
> Behalf Of Cindy
> >>> Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2006 12:55 AM
> >>> To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: M dash, how to
> make it?
> >>>
> >>> Is Lissi right in what she says about two dashes
> >>> instead of an em dash being easier to read in
> braile?
> >>> What about with Daisy? What should I be doing,
> em dash
> >>> or double dash?
> >>>
> >>> Cindy
> >>>
> >>> --- Estelnalissi <airadil@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Dear Jake,
> >>>>
> >>>> Your directions worked perfectly! I'm
> levitating! We
> >>>> all know I'm not the
> >>>> fastest barge on the canal when it comes to
> >>>> computers, but your instructions
> >>>> put those m dashes exactly where I needed them.
> >>>>
> >>>> The M dash will be especially easy to remember
> >>>> because it's insert 4 as you
> >>>> said for jaws, and then tapping e 4 times to
> reach m
> >>>> dash and enter not even
> >>>> having to go to OK!
> >>>>
> >>>> Also exciting is the fact I saw a slew of items
> >>>> listed in the insert 4
> >>>> dialogue box which may turn out to be useful!!
> >>>>
> >>>> The book I'm working on is an Irish memoir.
> Instead
> >>>> of using quotes or
> >>>> apostrophes, there's a dash or m dash before
> all
> >>>> quotes and no mark to show
> >>>> the end of the quote. It's plain in print
> because
> >>>> quotes are inserted
> >>>> farther than the narrative, but I think braille
> >>>> readers will quickly catch
> >>>> the pattern.
> >>>>
> >>>> While blissfully making my corrections with the
> new
> >>>> command, I noticed that
> >>>> the scanner read these unique indications of
> quotes
> >>>> as dash about half of
> >>>> the time and M dash the other half with some
> minus
> >>>> signs thrown in for
> >>>> variety. The mixture was random so I made a
> command
> >>>> decision to use the
> >>>> simpler dash to indicate quotes. I'm on page 27
> now
> >>>> and all quotes are
> >>>> uniformly indicated with a single dash, easier
> for
> >>>> me and the reader.
> >>>>
> >>>> By the way, when this book is approved, I'm
> going to
> >>>> mention that while
> >>>> anyone interested in quirky humor, Irish
> culture and
> >>>> recalling life from
> >>>> 1959 through 1960 something will like this
> book, but
> >>>> the POV, and the
> >>>> father, a kind of hero to the author will
> really
> >>>> appeal to the gritty guys
> >>>> among the members. I'm entranced, but regularly
> >>>> amused in spite of myself
> >>>> and grossed out, too.
> >>>>
> >>>> Always with love,
> >>>>
> >>>> Lissi
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks for helping me to enjoy another break
> >>>> through!
> >>>>
> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
> >>>> From: "Jake Brownell" <jabrown@xxxxxxxxx>
> >>>> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>> Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 6:52 PM
> >>>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: M dash, how to
> make
> >>>> it?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> > Hi Lissi,
> >>>> >    There are two easy ways to insert an
> em-dash
> >>>> >
> >>>> > If you're using Microsoft Word, you can press
> >>>> CTRL+ALT+the minus sign on
> >>>> > the numpad.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > If you're using JAWS, you can press INSERT+4
> (the
> >>>> 4 on the regular
> >>>> > keyboard) and you'll get a list of symbols.
> Press
> >>>> the letter e a few times
> >>>> > and you'll find em dash, then press enter.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > That's all there is to it.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Jake
> >>>> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> >>>> > From: "Estelnalissi" <airadil@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>> > To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>> > Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 5:16 PM
> >>>> > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] M dash, how to make
> it?
> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>> >> Dear Volunteer Friends,
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> There was a discussion here about making
> that
> >>>> long dash called m dash by
> >>>> >> Jaws using microsoft word while validating
> an RTF
> >>>> file. How to make it
> >>>> >> with other programs might have been
> mentioned,
> >>>> too.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> What I mostly remember is that it was
> suggested
> >>>> that just using 2 dashes
> >>>> >> comes out better for the braille reader in
> >>>> Bookshare's BRF file of a
> >>>> >> book. So, I decided that when I had a
> choice, I'd
> >>>> use 2 dashes.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> However, the book I'm validating is already
> >>>> packed with m dashes, so if I
> >>>> >> fix one, I thought it should match them.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> How do I make an m dash? Occasionally jaws
> calls
> >>>> an m dash a minus, and I
> >>>> >> want to replace the minus signs with m
> dashes. If
> >>>> anyone can point me to
> >>>> >> the answer or remind me how to do this, I'd
> >>>> appreciate it and save the
> >>>> >> information in my Bookshare Tips file.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> While I wait to hear about this, I'll mark
> the
> >>>> spot and go on. I'm only
> >>>> >> on page 12, but this book really motivates
> me to
> >>>> make good progress.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> Hope all of your current endeavors are going
> >>>> swimmingly. - Smile
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> Always with love,
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> Lissi
> >>>> >> To unsubscribe from this list send a blank
> Email
> >>>> to
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> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> -- 
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