[windows2000] Re: OT: Certification misrepresentation?
- From: "Joanne Determann" <joanne.determann@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: <windows2000@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 14:47:04 -0400
I waste my free time taking classes and reading tech books , magazines
and not studying for tests.
I have some certs( just for job hunting and letters after my name on my
business card) but never felt the proud feeling I get from an "A", a
tough problem solved, or getting the jump on new technology (or the bad
guys).
-----Original Message-----
From: Claus, Brian [mailto:BClaus@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 2:42 PM
To: windows2000@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [windows2000] Re: OT: Certification misrepresentation?
Jennifer,
Cheers on your rant...I've been 1 MS test away from MCSE for over a
year...just can't find the time to study and take that last one.
LOL on Spanglish.
_____
Brian Claus, MCP, Network+, A+
Network Administrator
WESCO Distribution, Inc.
225 West Station Square Drive, Suite 700
Pittsburgh, PA 15219-1122
Phone: 412-454-2412
Fax: 412-454-2540
bclaus@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:bclaus@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
_____
-----Original Message-----
From: windows2000-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:windows2000-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Jennifer Hooper
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 2:34 PM
To: 'windows2000@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
Subject: [windows2000] Re: OT: Certification misrepresentation?
Can I ask a really dumb question?? If this is the case, and there are
so
many 'paper' MCSE's (I remember when that was a major deal with CNE's
too),
then WHY on earth do so many companies demand that people have them even
to
get an interview?? You can't get in the door, let alone a chance to
demonstrate your knowledge. I fight against this *every* time I send a
resume, because though I have 13 years of experience, and several
training
courses, I do not have the papers to back me. It really SUCKS.
Especially
when you get wheezed out of a job by some kid who just finished a six
week
course at MicroSkills or Laptop Training Solutions who was frying
hamburgers
a month ago and doesn't even speak Spanglish. BUT, they are an MCSE.
Even
with all my school and experience, I was out of work for five months
last
year, because I didn't have papers. (More power to those who are driven
enough to take those courses and actually SPEND the time and energy to
KNOW
the material rather than those that just learn to pass the exams!!)
Besides, I don't know who can keep up with all the exams to take the
certifications and maintain a Senior-level position... I find myself so
swamped continuously, that I never have time to study or get down to
Vortex
to test. It's so bad, they are bringing trainers on site rather than
letting us go down the valley to a school. At least there's that much.
(sorry for the rant)
Thanks,
Jennifer
-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Reese [mailto:GReese@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 9:23 AM
To: windows2000@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [windows2000] Re: OT: Certification misrepresentation?
Trust me Jeff, I can understand why you are bent about it. I would be
too.
I am not an MCSE or even an MCP. Heck, I may not even be a Citrix CCA
anymore. There are a lot of paper MCSE's out there and if I was a real
MCSE, I would be pissed as hell because there has been a lot of backlash
out
there against you guys because of it.
Greg
-----Original Message-----
From: windows2000-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:windows2000-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jeff Malczewski
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 11:45 AM
To: 'windows2000@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
Subject: [windows2000] Re: OT: Certification misrepresentation?
That was my thoughts on the legal aspect.. No, they wouldn't put them
in
"certification jail" as Greg said, but I'm sure there is something
somewhere
in the Microsoft certification package about upholding a code of ethics
and
not misrepresenting yourself, etc etc...
As for providing his transcript, *I* have seen it. The problem is, he
won't
show it to anyone else, including his supervisor, who also doesn't seem
to
care about the matter... He has an MCP+i certificate on his wall, so
the
un-knowing supervisor automatically thinks that since he has an MCSE and
this other one says MCP+i that it's ok to put the two together, even
though
he's legally two tests and a few hundred thousand brain cells short of
the
real cert... IMHO he shouldn't have the MCSE either, since it was a
boot-camp MCSE and he didn't retain anything from it...
And Greg- I know this is the sort of thing that gives the rest of us a
bad
name. I have worked hard, studied, gotten TONS of hands on, and done
everything that needs to be done to ensure that I actually KNOW the
material
that piece of paper says I know. Why do you think I'm bent about this
id10t??
-----Original Message-----
From: Braebaum, Neil [mailto:Neil.Braebaum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 10:03 AM
To: windows2000@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [windows2000] Re: OT: Certification misrepresentation?
> Subject: [windows2000] Re: OT: Certification misrepresentation?
> Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 09:40:35 -0400
> From: "Greg Reese" <GReese@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>
> Not legal? What are they going to do? Put the person in
> certification jail?
Um, it could be fraud.
Certainly in the UK, if it was used to get a job, or attempt to, it
could be
viewed as fraudulently obtaining a pecunary advantage.
> It's the same as lying on a resume. Unethical and shady but not
> necessarily punishable by law.
Not necessarily - true, but it could be, depending on how it's used.
That's ignoring any contractual, trademark, copyright or other civil
issues
with the cert vendor.
Neil
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