[windows2000] Re: OT: Certification misrepresentation?
- From: Jeff Malczewski <jmalczewski@xxxxxxxx>
- To: "'windows2000@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'" <windows2000@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 14:22:01 -0400
They're really not. I'm ASE LT+A (that's how I know about it), and I have
turned my fair share of wrenches (rebuilt a few small-blocks in my time).
They're basically the same in theory. A whole bunch of smaller parts
working in concert to provide a single larger functional item. Each part is
as important as the next. In just the same way that if a $2 gasket fails,
you'll have problems in an engine, if a $10 piece of copper fails, you'll
have problems in a network...
-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Reese [mailto:GReese@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 1:50 PM
To: windows2000@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [windows2000] Re: OT: Certification misrepresentation?
A good fried of mine is both an ASE certified mechanic and an MCSE. A
real one on both counts. He is one of the smartest people I know. He
doesn't see computers and networks as being any different than engines.
Greg
-----Original Message-----
From: windows2000-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:windows2000-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jeff Malczewski
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 1:36 PM
To: 'windows2000@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
Subject: [windows2000] Re: OT: Certification misrepresentation?
Stories like that SCARE me, because I know it happens.. I think that
the MCSE should be like a certification in any other industry, and you
should have to have x years of verified experience before you are
awarded the cert.
For instance, ASE (Automotive Service Excellence, not Compaq) awards
require
2 years of experience to be certified in Light Truck and Automobile
Parts.
You can take the exams any time you wish, but you do not get the
certification and the benefits of said cert until you have two years of
experience with an approved company (a parts store like Autozone or
similar, or a dealer's parts counter, etc).
-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Reese [mailto:GReese@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 1:18 PM
To: windows2000@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [windows2000] Re: OT: Certification misrepresentation?
I had a guy get dropped off in my department once. A freshly minted
MCSE. Some guys were opening a computer and the guy's eyes got all big
because "I've always wondered what the inside of these looked like" We
thought he was joking but he wasn't. It was really scary. He lasted
about two days. He spent that two days correcting all the other
engineers. He had to be let go before they duck taped him to the
flagpole or something.
That was before they made the tests harder. I am glad they did that so
it puts some more meaning into it for those of you who have the skill to
back it up.
Greg
-----Original Message-----
From: windows2000-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:windows2000-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jim Hathaway
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 1:05 PM
To: windows2000@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [windows2000] Re: OT: Certification misrepresentation?
Can't find a copy of it on the web, but here's the text of my personal
favorite Dilbert cartoon of all time . . . .
Dilbert is at a computer that has a problem, and suddenly a guy
in a cape
comes up to him and says "Step away from that network server, I
am
certified!". The guy steps up to the server and yells "I SUMMON
THE VAST
POWERS OF CERTIFICATION"... Dilbert looks at him and guy
continues:
"Funny, that's all I remember from the certification class"
:)
I've run into a few folks like this over the years. A few years back
now, we had hired a new tech that seemded to have his certs in order,
and sent him to install a network printer at a small client site . . A
single TCP/IP enabled printer. I'm still not sure what he did in the 2
hours he was onsite, but it took 2 of our senior engineers 2 full days
to get the site back up and working again.
Just thinking about it still makes me cringe. . .
J
-----Original Message-----
From: windows2000-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:windows2000-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Greg Reese
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 9:23 AM
To: windows2000@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [windows2000] Re: OT: Certification misrepresentation?
Trust me Jeff, I can understand why you are bent about it. I would be
too. I am not an MCSE or even an MCP. Heck, I may not even be a Citrix
CCA anymore. There are a lot of paper MCSE's out there and if I was a
real MCSE, I would be pissed as hell because there has been a lot of
backlash out there against you guys because of it.
Greg
-----Original Message-----
From: windows2000-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:windows2000-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jeff Malczewski
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 11:45 AM
To: 'windows2000@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
Subject: [windows2000] Re: OT: Certification misrepresentation?
That was my thoughts on the legal aspect.. No, they wouldn't put them
in "certification jail" as Greg said, but I'm sure there is something
somewhere in the Microsoft certification package about upholding a code
of ethics and not misrepresenting yourself, etc etc...
As for providing his transcript, *I* have seen it. The problem is, he
won't show it to anyone else, including his supervisor, who also doesn't
seem to care about the matter... He has an MCP+i certificate on his
wall, so the un-knowing supervisor automatically thinks that since he
has an MCSE and this other one says MCP+i that it's ok to put the two
together, even though he's legally two tests and a few hundred thousand
brain cells short of the real cert... IMHO he shouldn't have the MCSE
either, since it was a boot-camp MCSE and he didn't retain anything from
it...
And Greg- I know this is the sort of thing that gives the rest of us a
bad name. I have worked hard, studied, gotten TONS of hands on, and
done everything that needs to be done to ensure that I actually KNOW the
material that piece of paper says I know. Why do you think I'm bent
about this id10t??
-----Original Message-----
From: Braebaum, Neil [mailto:Neil.Braebaum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 10:03 AM
To: windows2000@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [windows2000] Re: OT: Certification misrepresentation?
> Subject: [windows2000] Re: OT: Certification misrepresentation?
> Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 09:40:35 -0400
> From: "Greg Reese" <GReese@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>
> Not legal? What are they going to do? Put the person in
> certification jail?
Um, it could be fraud.
Certainly in the UK, if it was used to get a job, or attempt to, it
could be viewed as fraudulently obtaining a pecunary advantage.
> It's the same as lying on a resume. Unethical and shady but not
> necessarily punishable by law.
Not necessarily - true, but it could be, depending on how it's used.
That's ignoring any contractual, trademark, copyright or other civil
issues with the cert vendor.
Neil
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