[SI-LIST] Re: SI Simulation of GHz signals
- From: "Dunbar, Tony" <tony_dunbar@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 16:27:13 -0400
Sorry for replying via the list to Clifford's e-mail, but it appears the
"blackhole.net" domain is anything but; I attempted a reply and was bounced
rather than being sucked in. Perhaps, I should be grateful! So, Clifford,
please see my reply below. Anyone else not interested, please ignore this
posting.
Regards,
Tony
=========
Clifford,
I don't know your geographic location, but I'll be very happy to help you
with any problems you're experiencing with HyperLynx. I'm very familiar with
its use with the Rocket IO Design Kit.
It is true that HSPICE models encrypted for Eldo (the Mentor SPICE
simulator) excludes the need for HSPICE as the external simulator. These
models are available from the Xilinx download area as an alternative to the
HSPICE models encrypted for HSPICE. If you prefer to use HSPICE, that's
fine. Eldo will also support S-Parameter Touchstone files and these are also
included in the HyperLynx Rocket IO Design Kit, version 3.6. Eldo has proven
to me to be very reliable and fast when using the S-Parameter files for the
Xilinx FPGA package model.
Again, I'll be very happy to help you should you ask. I'll be travelling
tomorrow, Tuesday, so I'll miss any e-mail reply from you until Wed morning
if I don't hear back from you before 4:15pm CDT, or so, this afternoon.
Please let me know your geographic location. If you'll be better supported
by a more suitably located Mentor AE, I'll hand over to him/her.
Regards,
Tony
-----Original Message-----
From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Clifford van Dyk
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 12:32 PM
To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [SI-LIST] SI Simulation of GHz signals
Hello
I would like to perform reliable simulation of GHz signals (up to 3.125GHz),
specifically Xilinx RocketIO. I would like to include in the simulation the
effects of the following:
Driver->PCB trace (incl. vias)->connector->cable->connector->PCB
trace(incl. vias)->Receiver
The models that I have obtained from the various vendors are HSPICE
models. I have evaluated two of the most recommended S.I. toolchains:
Mentor G. HyperLynx and Cadence Spectraquest. Both tools use HSPICE as
the simulation engine, and essentially act as a front-end gui to HSPICE,
as well as extracting the PCB trace/via models. My experiences thusfar
with both tools have not been good. Anything but the most simplistic of
traces causes the tools to either crash or take rediculous time to
process (of the order of hours for even a simple net). A further issue
is that both of these tool vendors claim that the HSPICE simulator is
not necessary, and that the simulation can be performed without it, but
practically this is not the case, due to a lack of availability of
reliable models in anything other than HSPICE format. The conversion
from HSPICE to any of the custom modelling types is also, in my opinion,
non-trivial and potentially an extremely tedious manual process.
I believe that S-Parameter based simulation provides much faster
simulation, but again there is a lack of availability of S-Parameter models.
Can anyone recommend a method for simulating the above signals that is
simple, robust and reliable, or is the simulation of such signals still
premature? Coming from a HW design background, I am fairly new to S.I.,
but it seems surprising that there is no industry-standard modelling
type (equivalent of IBIS) that cable/connector vendors will provide, but
maybe this level of simulation is in its infancy, and S-Parameter models
will emerge as the standard?
Is the simulation of such signals entirely necessary? I am dubious about
the reliability of the results of such simulations, and I am wondering
whether it is not more practical to just take all the precautions
possible and hope for the best!
Please let me know if you have any advise, or a good solution to my dilemma!
Kind regards,
Clifford
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