[SI-LIST] Re: SI Simulation of GHz signals

Clifford,

The newest Hspice will support the S-parameter,
although I haven't seen it.

Another tool generated buzz during last year's DAC is:
nSpice from Apache Design Automation:

http://www.apache-da.com/

It also support S parameter and run much fast compared
to Hspice as claimed.

I have seen the first generation of nSpice, and it is
quite impressive.


Thanks

Yafei

--- Clifford van Dyk <clifford@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Hello
> I would like to perform reliable simulation of GHz
> signals (up to 
> 3.125GHz), specifically Xilinx RocketIO. I would
> like to include in the 
> simulation the effects of the following:
> Driver->PCB trace (incl.
> vias)->connector->cable->connector->PCB 
> trace(incl. vias)->Receiver
> 
> The models that I have obtained from the various
> vendors are HSPICE 
> models. I have evaluated two of the most recommended
> S.I. toolchains: 
> Mentor G. HyperLynx and Cadence Spectraquest. Both
> tools use HSPICE as 
> the simulation engine, and essentially act as a
> front-end gui to HSPICE, 
> as well as extracting the PCB trace/via models. My
> experiences thusfar 
> with both tools have not been good. Anything but the
> most simplistic of 
> traces causes the tools to either crash or take
> rediculous time to 
> process (of the order of hours for even a simple
> net). A further issue 
> is that both of these tool vendors claim that the
> HSPICE simulator is 
> not necessary, and that the simulation can be
> performed without it, but 
> practically this is not the case, due to a lack of
> availability of 
> reliable models in anything other than HSPICE
> format. The conversion 
> from HSPICE to any of the custom modelling types is
> also, in my opinion, 
> non-trivial and potentially an extremely tedious
> manual process.
> 
> I believe that S-Parameter based simulation provides
> much faster 
> simulation, but again there is a lack of
> availability of S-Parameter models.
> 
> Can anyone recommend a method for simulating the
> above signals that is 
> simple, robust and reliable, or is the simulation of
> such signals still 
> premature? Coming from a HW design background, I am
> fairly new to S.I., 
> but it seems surprising that  there is no
> industry-standard modelling 
> type (equivalent of IBIS) that cable/connector
> vendors will provide, but 
> maybe this level of simulation is in its infancy,
> and S-Parameter models 
> will emerge as the standard?
> 
> Is the simulation of such signals entirely
> necessary? I am dubious about 
> the reliability of the results of such simulations,
> and I am wondering 
> whether it is not more practical to just take all
> the precautions 
> possible and hope for the best!
> 
> Please let me know if you have any advise, or a good
> solution to my dilemma!
> 
> Kind regards,
> Clifford
> 
> 
> 
>
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